Greek AF performance at Red Flag 09-1??

[djpav]

This is my first post to the forum, so my apologies if this subject has been already discussed .

Does anybody know how the Greek AF performed at the recent Red Flag 09-1? I've read random bits and pieces on the internet that they performed well but have not been able to find a coherent summary/report on the whole affair. Anybody knows more?

 

[KonTim]

QUOTE,djpav

This is my first post to the forum, so my apologies if this subject has been already discussed .

Does anybody know how the Greek AF performed at the recent Red Flag 09-1? I've read random bits and pieces on the internet that they performed well but have not been able to find a coherent summary/report on the whole affair. Anybody knows more?

According informations been published in Greek military press the HAF crews had an excellent performance to recent Red Flag exercise.

Greek pilots have achieved in total 18 "kills" against USAF Aggressors while suffering only 3 losses in air-to-air combats-the last during a mission of protecting a HVAA target with 4 aircraft against 12 USAF Aggressors fighters.

The first day of the drill scoring was 11-0 to Greek pilots and to the last mission,mentioned above,they have managed 7 "kills" against Aggresors fighters while loosing only 3 in exchange.

 

[wimpymouse]

QUOTE,djpav


According informations been published in Greek military press the HAF crews had an excellent performance to recent Red Flag exercise.

Greek pilots have achieved in total 18 "kills" against USAF Aggressors while suffering only 3 losses in air-to-air combats-the last during a mission of protecting a HVAA target with 4 aircraft against 12 USAF Aggressors fighters.

The first day of the drill scoring was 11-0 to Greek pilots and to the last mission,mentioned above,they have managed 7 "kills" against Aggresors fighters while loosing only 3 in exchange.

Any linky on that?




Found this vid of a kill.

[ame="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1471979/hellenic_air_force/"]Hellenic Air Force - Video[/ame]

 

[KonTim]

Unfornunately i can't provide you a link.

However informations about Greek Airforce perfromance during recent Red Flag have been published to two Greek monthly military magazines,"ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ ΑΜΥΝΑ&ΑΣΦΑΛΕΙΑ" and "ΣΤΡΑΤΗΓΙΚΗ" from where my infos cames.

As for the video above,actually is quite old.It shows an air engagement between Greek and Turkish fighters in October of 1997 when 4 TAF fighters had harassed a Greek C-130 carrying the Greek minister of Defence back to Greece from Cyprus.

 

[wimpymouse]

Unfornunately i can't provide you a link.

However informations about Greek Airforce perfromance during recent Red Flag have been published to two Greek monthly military magazines,"ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ ΑΜΥΝΑ&ΑΣΦΑΛΕΙΑ" and "ΣΤΡΑΤΗΓΙΚΗ" from where my infos cames.

As for the video above,actually is quite old.It shows an air engagement between Greek and Turkish fighters in October of 1997 when 4 TAF fighters had harassed a Greek C-130 carrying the Greek minister of Defence back to Greece from Cyprus.

OK, I've looked around my self but couldn't find anything. I thought the performance of the Greeks to be outstanding and wanted to read some more details.. Thanks for your help!

 

[orko_8]

It's not a surprise thta Greek AF performed exceptionally well in the exercise. However, thanks to the mainstream over-fanatic Greek defense media, there is an amazing myth built around the performance of EAP, reaching to grotesque, often absurd ends.

During and just after RF, there have been claims of: 11-0, 180-8, 78-8 and 17-3 kill ratios, not surprisingly, in favor of EAP. These are the ones I have managed to record, I guess there are more variations of kill rates.

It is worth mentioning that Greek F-16 package was deployed with SEAD missions in RF.

Below is a graph of the kill ratio claims by Greek defense media and web sites, prepared by Saladin from another forum. Vertical line is hit scores, horizontal line is time of the claim, Blue line is EAP F-16's and Rd line is USAF.

I want to underline that I indeed believe that EAP performed exceptionally well, but exagerrating this performance to satisfy ultranationalist enthusiasts is more than absurd.

 

[wimpymouse]

It's not a surprise thta Greek AF performed exceptionally well in the exercise. However, thanks to the mainstream over-fanatic Greek defense media, there is an amazing myth built around the performance of EAP, reaching to grotesque, often absurd ends.

During and just after RF, there have been claims of: 11-0, 180-8, 78-8 and 17-3 kill ratios, not surprisingly, in favor of EAP. These are the ones I have managed to record, I guess there are more variations of kill rates.

It is worth mentioning that Greek F-16 package was deployed with SEAD missions in RF.

Below is a graph of the kill ratio claims by Greek defense media and web sites, prepared by Saladin from another forum. Vertical line is hit scores, horizontal line is time of the claim, Blue line is EAP F-16's and Rd line is USAF.

I want to underline that I indeed believe that EAP performed exceptionally well, but exagerrating this performance to satisfy ultranationalist enthusiasts is more than absurd.

You read Greek? That's pretty cool.

According to info from this thread alone, Greek scores prior to the last mission were 11-0. That was one of your figures. In the last mission the Greeks scored 7-3. Add 11-0 to 7-3 and you have 18-3.

So I guess both 11-0 and 18-3 are correct figures, while the two high figures seem too stupid to be true no matter how you look at it (I'd say even for the media, of any country, but media outlets sure can state some stupid shit some times).

This SEAD, does it stand for SEA Defence, SEAir Defence, or what? And what importance does it have in a dogfight?

 

[rattmuff]

This SEAD, does it stand for SEA Defence, SEAir Defence, or what? And what importance does it have in a dogfight?

Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses. It COULD involve dogfighting if unlucky. I think.

But it is about mainly about taking on the enemy SAMs, radars and command&control and tare those things apart.

 

[wimpymouse]

Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses. It COULD involve dogfighting if unlucky. I think.

But it is about mainly about taking on the enemy SAMs, radars and command&control and tare those things apart.

Right, but how come orco_8 put emphasis on this when the results of the Greeks only was about their dogfighting performance? Is there a connection?

 

[ginov]

Right, but how come orco_8 put emphasis on this when the results of the Greeks only was about their dogfighting performance? Is there a connection?

well,in RF they fly complex scenarios that contain many tasks.so having the 343 sq as primary role SEAD,HAF pilots while flying on a SEAD escort sortie,Agressor planes tryed to counter them.thats how the kills happened.furthermore,the 343 sq has as a secondary(not quite "second", actually they train in air defence in the same level as in SEAD) role the air defence so HAF f16s undertook HVAA protection tasks.the mighty agressors tryed but their good wasnt good enough(just kiding)

 

[wimpymouse]

well,in RF they fly complex scenarios that contain many tasks.so having the 343 sq as primary role SEAD,HAF pilots while flying on a SEAD escort sortie,Agressor planes tryed to counter them.thats how the kills happened.furthermore,the 343 sq has as a secondary(not quite "second", actually they train in air defence in the same level as in SEAD) role the air defence so HAF f16s undertook HVAA protection tasks.the mighty agressors tryed but their good wasnt good enough(just kiding)

I have no idea what HVAA is. But if I understood you correct, the two main, and equally trained, tasks of the 343 sq back in Greece is SEAD and a2a combat, and that they during RF were assigned to do just those two things they do best, no?

Maybe I misunderstood orko_8, but he's definately triggered by something, and as I read him he's downpalying the Greeks performance with the SEAD remark. Although, I could be wrong on the latter. Still, I'm puzzled by that remark, because to me it looks like a bloody good performance, and surely the F-15's were likewise assigned to do what they primarily are supposed to do. That was the Fetacheeze Performance of the Year 2008!

Now if only the Swedes wouldn't be soo effin secretive/humble, what ever, and actually say how they performed...

 

[ginov]

I have no idea what HVAA is. But if I understood you correct, the two main, and equally trained, tasks of the 343 sq back in Greece is SEAD and a2a combat, and that they during RF were assigned to do just those two things they do best, no?

Maybe I misunderstood orko_8, but he's definately triggered by something, and as I read him he's downpalying the Greeks performance with the SEAD remark. Although, I could be wrong on the latter. Still, I'm puzzled by that remark, because to me it looks like a bloody good performance, and surely the F-15's were likewise assigned to do what they primarily are supposed to do. That was the Fetacheeze Performance of the Year 2008!

Now if only the Swedes wouldn't be soo effin secretive/humble, what ever, and actually say how they performed...

ok,you understood correct.of course there not only two tasks that all the airforces where trained in.there are other smaller"subtasks"that they took espessially "inside" the primary mission.HVAA is the acronim for "Hi Value Airborne Asset"witch means aircrafts of "super" importance if you like!such as AEW's or airtankers that definitely need special protection during a war time situation.As for orco_8 he has a kind of a correct arguement.here in greece many tried to exagerate(there where posts about 171-24 kills!!!!!something that is not realistic)of course that doesnt mean that HAF didnt do an awsom job against the agrressors.they where quite surprized actually as i heard from a HAF pilot friend of mine...

 

[wimpymouse]

ok,you understood correct.of course there not only two tasks that all the airforces where trained in.there are other smaller"subtasks"that they took espessially "inside" the primary mission.HVAA is the acronim for "Hi Value Airborne Asset"witch means aircrafts of "super" importance if you like!such as AEW's or airtankers that definitely need special protection during a war time situation.As for orco_8 he has a kind of a correct arguement.here in greece many tried to exagerate(there where posts about 171-24 kills!!!!!something that is not realistic)of course that doesnt mean that HAF didnt do an awsom job against the agrressors.they where quite surprized actually as i heard from a HAF pilot friend of mine...

Who were surprised, the Mericans? Tell me more pilot gossip, damn it...

 

[orko_8]

Right, but how come orco_8 put emphasis on this when the results of the Greeks only was about their dogfighting performance? Is there a connection?

Extremely high air to air kill scores would make more sense for a package tasked with CAP (Combat Air Patrol), escort, air superiority, QRA etc. SEAD fighters' mission is to strike enemy air defense network and they are protected by friendly fighters (i.e escorts). That was my point.