German parliament debates defence budget

[Falstaff]

Sorry guys if this isn't too interesting for non-Germans

As I'm still ill and have some time to spend I just watched the parliaments debate about the defence budget and minister Jung's speech. I'm deeply impressed, in 20 minutes he managed to say... nothing at all. Not a single word about procurement or future strategy or anything of importance.

He just made some statements which I could summarize as following:
- defence budget rises by 918 million €
- a big share of this money will be spend for modernising barracks in W.-Germany and an increase in soldiers' payments by 2 € per day (whoa I'm gonna reenter)
- he again made a commitment regarding the conscript army
- budget for investment will rise while costs for maintenance will decline.
- a foggy reference to our foggy white book

That's about it. Nothing about the pressing budget and deployment issues, nothing about all those gaps and holes in equipment and support for our soldiers. I'm not impressed and we're certainly not amused, honestly. I don't know what I was expecting, but there seemed to be no vision for the future or some kind of concept. That performance was utterly weak. Every single opposition speech is better and more detailed than his'.

 

[kato]

He just made some statements which I could summarize as following:
- defence budget rises by 918 million €

HAH, i knew it.

Seriously. Half a year ago, i said "well, the Bundeswehr wants 1.2 billion extra in addition to the 300 million rise already announced ... with German politics, they're gonna get half of it, for 900 million total."

Overall budget will be 29.3 billion Euro ($40.7 billion).

The Bundeswehr will receive 2 billion (additionally? not really clear to me) between 2008 and 2011 to cover current deployments (Kosovo, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Lebanon, Macedonia). Additionally, a 530 million Euro increase is supposed to be created by selling off real estate and other property.

Also, parliament has decided today to extend the Lebanon mission by another year, while reducing deployment cap from 2500 to 1400 soldiers.

 

[harryriedl]

HAH, i knew it.

Seriously. Half a year ago, i said "well, the Bundeswehr wants 1.2 billion extra in addition to the 300 million rise already announced ... with German politics, they're gonna get half of it, for 900 million total."

Overall budget will be 29.3 billion Euro ($40.7 billion).

The Bundeswehr will receive 2 billion (additionally? not really clear to me) between 2008 and 2011 to cover current deployments (Kosovo, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Lebanon, Macedonia). Additionally, a 530 million Euro increase is supposed to be created by selling off real estate and other property.

Also, parliament has decided today to extend the Lebanon mission by another year, while reducing deployment cap from 2500 to 1400 soldiers.

are still German troops in Congo

 

[kato]

are still German troops in Congo

Nah, the mission was over after 4 months or so. German troops were only deployed to safeguard the elections and the immediate aftermath.

Current active deployments (with caps as declared by parliament):

ISAF (Afghanistan), 2,900 soldiers (cap: 3,000)
KFOR (Kosovo), 2,500 soldiers (cap: 8,500)
UNIFIL II (Lebanon), 1,400 soldiers (cap: 2,400)
EUFOR (Bosnia), 930 soldiers (cap: 2,400)
OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom, Horn of Africa), several hundred soldiers, varies
OAE (Operation Active Endeavour, Mediterranean), several hundred soldiers, varies
AMIS (Darfur), airlift forces in readiness state

OEF and OAE joint cap is 4,900, afaik. Maximum deployed was about 2,500 iirc, current average for both together is around 400-600.

Observer missions (unarmed military observers):

UNMIS (Sudan), 75 observers
UNOMIG (Georgia), 3 observers and 10 medics
UNMEE (Ethiopia/Eritrea), 2 observers

 

[Waylander]

Sorry guys if this isn't too interesting for non-Germans

As I'm still ill and have some time to spend I just watched the parliaments debate about the defence budget and minister Jung's speech. I'm deeply impressed, in 20 minutes he managed to say... nothing at all. Not a single word about procurement or future strategy or anything of importance.

Are you surprised?

What should he say about future strategy? Often enough it seems as if there is no political strategy for the future look or use of the Bundeswehr. And no minister of defence can try to formulate something like that on his own.

@Kato
Applause, you won the cake.
I was even more pessimistic and would have lost a bet.

 

[Falstaff]

Remember my moaning about lack of vision of Mr. Jung? There you are... Nothing more to say.

@Kato
Applause, you won the cake.
I was even more pessimistic and would have lost a bet.

Mmh, I remember being the 1,2 bln guy... shame on me. Perhaps we'll make kato our "budget oracle"?

 

[kato]

Perhaps we'll make kato our "budget oracle"?

There's other budget stuff that's somewhat harder to predict

Schäuble for example. Bit hard to find - but expenditures for "Inner Security" are rising 10% next year. That's about the missing €300 million btw

However, i'm wondering where these €300 million are disappearing to. €200 million go into a project for new fed-wide digital communications systems, good investion. Still leaves €100 million missing. The BKA, for example, actually gets €5 million less than in 2007 (minus 0.8%), and the BSI gets €4 million less (minus 6%). Considering these two are considered the cornerstones of Schäubles more... far-fetched ideas of what his ministry is supposed to do, i really wonder where the money goes to.

Btw, the Defence Ministry gets an internal transfer of €47 million from the Ministry of the Interior - to promote sports in the Army. Seriously.

 

[Waylander]

Maybe he uses the missing money as a payment for a group of IT-students.

Should be enough to get a good Bundestrojaner...

I have no problem with our security forces getting more money.
In fact I think it is much more needed than more money for the Bundeswehr and I am not focussing mainly on a more or less dubious terror threat.

As you said it would be really interesting to see for what Schäuble uses the money.

 

[Waylander]

Woohoooo. Our politicians think that the planes used by the Luftwaffe for government transports are too old (mid 80s).

So we are going to buy two Airbus A319 and four Bombardier Aerospace Global 5000. Including maintenance for ten years this is going to cost 600 million €.
After they tried to outsource the Flugbereitschaft without success for several years they now decided to buy the new planes.
No private company was able to provide planes 24hours/365days for a smaller price. What a surprise...

600 million € because planes from the mid eighties are too old...
Let me think about the flying equipment of the Bundeswehr. What is the average age of it?
But no problem they just have to go into missions with them...

 

[kato]

Woohoooo. Our politicians think that the planes used by the Luftwaffe for government transports are too old (mid 80s).

Don't forget that these aircraft are actually used a lot. As in, at least 800-1,000 flight hours per year per aircraft, i'd say.

Also, the Flugbereitschaft has severely slimmed down compared to what it used to be.

The 1993 to 1996 OrBat still had 20 aircraft and 28 helos: 4 LET-410, 3 VFW-614, 7 CL-601, 2 Tu-154M, 2 Boeing 707, 3 A310, 8 Mi-8S, 20 UH-1D (4 used for SAR).

Nowadays, they only have 13 aircraft and 3 helos: 7 A310 (4 MRTT, 2 VIP, 1 Passenger), 6 CL-601, 3 AS-532.

So we are going to buy two Airbus A319 and four Bombardier Aerospace Global 5000. Including maintenance for ten years this is going to cost 600 million €.

And interestingly they're only replacing the Challengers with them. The A310 used for Bundeswehr passenger flights and the Cougars stay on. Meaning a upgrade in capability actually (two 48-seat and four 12-seat aircraft versus six 16-seat aircraft). Plus all new aircraft have far longer range.

Would be interesting whether they're gonna buy Medevac equipment for the new aircraft - there are currently three sets to equip Challengers for that role, and one is always held in Medevac readiness state.

Original plan btw (in January, which Spiegel refers to) was to buy four aircraft and keep some of the Challengers in service.

Let me think about the flying equipment of the Bundeswehr. What is the average age of it?

Average... umm, around 25 years? maybe 30? :