Future of the Global Hawk

King Wally

Active Member
I've been reading from a few different sources that it's troubled times ahead for the Global Hawk with the U2 possible remaining in service. Are they only phasing out the block 30's or the entire Global Hawk fleet? If all, what are the "alternatives" on the table that we're looking at?

USAF Cancels Block 30 RQ-4 Global Hawk - Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News
Why Global Hawk Block 40 May Be Killed

Surely throwing the U2's back in is a temp fix until they sort out the cost and reliability of the program/variants?

In other news I'm still expecting the Australian gov to soon make a move on the Global Hawk BAMS variant. Got the new white paper out Friday and Elections later this year with promises already being made regarding it.
 

Burt Way

New Member
Global Hawk

The ability to keep Global Hawk working in the field has been a major issue for a long time. If you can't fix it you can't use it. Check out the GH Operational Test & Evaluation report, which states "The RQ-4B Global Hawk Block 30 air vehicle fault detection and indication system ... is not effective for post-flight maintenance fault isolation. Air Force maintenance personnel are unable to evaluate the large number of presented fault codes to identify specific system failures." One of several issues why the Air Force does not want Block 30 & 40. The Navy Triton version will fix many of the previous blocks' problems and may save the program for the contractor.
 

colay

New Member
It turns out the Golden Oldie beats out the newbie..

airforcemag.com Homepage

Cost is Not the Driving Issue

The quality of the imagery products and not relative operating costs is the main reason the Air Force wants to divest its RQ-4 Global Hawk Block 30 fleet in favor of keeping U-2 surveillance airplanes in service for longer, Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh told lawmakers last week. "The sensor products . . . are not as good on the Global Hawk as they are on the U-2, and every one of our collection managers and our combatant commands will tell you that," he told the House Appropriations Committee's defense panel on May 9. "The combatant commanders "prefer a U-2 product in many mission areas over the Global Hawk," said Welsh. "The sensor ranges are longer on the U-2," which is "beneficial, particularly" when operating "near a border that you can't cross" in order to overfly the target areas, he said. "Those were the big things that drove our assessment," said Welsh. The Air Force wanted to divest the Global Hawk Block 30s in Fiscal 2013, but Congress mandated that they stay in service through 2014. Some lawmakers continue to press the Air Force to keep them for even longer.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Our government just decided to stop procurement of the Eurohawk after they managed to get the first one over the pond.

Getting certification for the european airspace would cost roughly 600 million EUR. As this is ridicilously expensive they decided to stop the whole program.

I just shake my head in disbelieve over so much fail. We have already poured some 600 million EUR into the project and now these clowns calling themselfs project managers realize that getting a certification for an UAV the size of a passenger jet for the most crowded airspace on this planet might be a tad difficult...
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Bizarre. Surely, that shouldn have been checked before the project began. I hope heads are (metaphorically) rolling.

As for the U-2 being preferred to Global Hawk because of the sensors - who specified those Global Hawk sensors? Wasn't it the air force that now doesn't want it, because of them?

Sometimes, I think decimation is too good for military procurement staff.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I am tempted to demand more than just metaphorical heads rolling...

The thing about the U-2 and it's better sensors makes me wonder, too. Couldn't they have implemented a comparable sensor suite between blocks 1 and 30? Is it a payload problem as obviously it can't be a technology problem...
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The thing about the U-2 and it's better sensors makes me wonder, too. Couldn't they have implemented a comparable sensor suite between blocks 1 and 30? Is it a payload problem as obviously it can't be a technology problem...
It doesn't make sense to me, as you say it's not a technology problem - and the Euros (esp the Germans) would have seen the GH data when the US was running transcontinental tests from both Germany and Australia

something in this story is missing from public display...
 

colay

New Member
Well, if you remove/reduce the primary justification for the GH Blk 30 by cutting the number of high-altitude ISR orbits, then you undercut it's reason for existing in the first place. It seems strange and counter-intuitive given what would seem to be an insatiable appetite for all sorts of intelligence but as the article speculates maybe,part of the motivation is the advent of the Avenger and the promise of a more cost-effective and versatile platform?

U-2, Global Hawk Advocates Square Off in Budget Battle

Less than a year ago, Air Force officials certified in writing to Congress that the Global Hawk was essential and that no other platform could perform its mission. The memo stated that it costs $220 million more per year to operate the U-2 than the Global Hawk.

But Air Force Secretary Michael Donley and Schwartz were back before the Senate Armed Services Committee in March telling a different story: The U-2 was more capable, and the Global Hawk was too expensive.

The secretary and the chief defended their amended assessment before senators, some of whom appeared baffled. The switch in opinion resulted from a change in requirements, Donley and Schwartz said.

The Air Force decreased the number of orbits required for high-altitude surveillance. Officials would not go into specific numbers on the record, but the fewer orbits meant that the less persistent U-2 could continue to perform the high-altitude ISR mission at a lower cost, Donley explained.

The aforementioned certification of the Global Hawk’s superiority was based on higher persistence levels that would have been more expensive to provide with the U-2. But the change in activity level, along with less capable sensors on the Global Hawk, flipped the scenario around. The need for improved sensors on the unmanned aircraft would add cost to the Block 30 program throughout the decade, Donley said.

“When you put the costs of the two programs together on paper, it’s cheaper for us to continue with the U-2 program,” he said.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
“When you put the costs of the two programs together on paper, it’s cheaper for us to continue with the U-2 program,” he said.
??

In short the defence for the decision revolves around the fact that the CONOPS have changed and therefore the aircraft is no longer suitable for that series of originally established mission sets - and which were defined by the users and service in the first place

sounds feeble to me as the platform is inherently flexible and was designed for MMR
 

protoplasm

Active Member
Is this a case of
- we need to find some savings and we already have a HALE platform that'll do
- therefore change the CONOPS to make the U-2 more attractive
- thereby justifying cutting Block 30
- Voila, savings target met, don't need to look at any other programs for saving now
 

colay

New Member
Another odd twist in the Global Hawk Blk.30 saga. Probably some Congressman twisting the AF's arm to buy additional aircraft.

US Air Force to buy additional RQ-4 Global Hawk Block 30s

US Air Force to buy additional RQ-4 Global Hawk Block 30s

The US Air Force has issued a pre-solicitation notice to purchase additional Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk Block 30 unmanned air vehicles (UAV), despite the potential retirement of the existing fleet.

The Air Force released a pre-solicitation notice on 12 September, notifying the public of its intent to buy Lot 12 aircraft...

"Against AF [Air Force] recommendations, AF was directed in the FY13 NDAA [National Defense Authorization Act] to procure the GH [Global Hawk] Block 30 Lot 11 aircraft (3)--so we are," says a senior Air Force official, who requested anonymity.

More at the jump.
 

senmeis

New Member
Global Hawk and WGS

Once I read a news about the surveillance data transmitted by Global Hawk. Earlier it had been planed that all the surveillance data from Global Hawk shall be relayed by WGS, but after some tests this plan was canceled because of too much data.

Has anybody got more information about this issue?

Mod edit: Do we need 2 Global Hawk threads?
 
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