European Military Jet Trainer?

[macman]

I was wondering about which new military jet trainers the Europeans are looking to use...

I had heard it was a tossup between the Alenia Aermacchi M-346 & the EADS Mako/HEAT, but then I heard that the EADS plane was cancelled..

Are they going to go for the Alenia Aermacchi M-346, which is basically a Yak-130 with slightly more powerful engines, or does Germany/France/UK want something different?

 

[kato]

The UK was never part of the Advanced European Jet Pilot Training project, and is buying Hawk 128.

Sadly, AEJPT seems to be pretty much dead for the moment. ENJJPT will continue until at least 2016, don't expect any real movement in AEJPT before then.

 

[shrubage]

I don't think a common European Jet trainer was ever a realistic possibility. Too many countries in Europe have small aircraft manufacturing industries just about able to build training aircraft. The point of a common aircraft would be to reduce costs, where as what most nations want is to use money for jet trainers to subsidise their own industry not somebody elses.

 

[ROCK45]

Trainer

One might say the Yak-130 is basically a Alenia Aermacchi M-346. Since Alenia is a little better known for producing trainers I lean toward them putting a little more on the table with this when it was a joint project.

I've seen pictures of the Yak-130 so a few were built but it seems like this project has slowed down a lot in the last two years. Algeria and Venezuela have requested it so even with two customers it's production is painfully slow.

I think the rough times has its effects on many Air Forces around the world and advance training is just one of those areas where money isn't being spent. I think if times were different the M-346 & T-50s would have had customer already.

It's a risky market that's the bottom line.

 

[kato]

shrubage:

The project has been tied for 10 years. And there's not a huge variety of aircraft available - there were only two aircraft under consideration, EADS Mako HEAT (German) and M-346 (Italian). Neither France nor Spain nor Sweden have a "modern" jet trainer under development, and no one else other than those 5 within AEJPT has the capability to build at least a high supersonic trainer.

 

[shrubage]

shrubage:

The project has been tied for 10 years. And there's not a huge variety of aircraft available - there were only two aircraft under consideration, EADS Mako HEAT (German) and M-346 (Italian). Neither France nor Spain nor Sweden have a "modern" jet trainer under development, and no one else other than those 5 within AEJPT has the capability to build at least a high supersonic trainer.

I'm not particularly knowledgable about Military aviation, but do air forces really have a requirement for a supersonic jet trainer. I always thought that advance training was done in subsonic jets like the hawk, L39, alpha jet etc. I know the americans use the the T36 but I think thats the only purpoe built supersonic jet trainer at this time.

Having just a superficial knowledge of the Eurofighter program I just get the feeling its going to go the same way as other multi national defence projects.

European nations choose to design their own individual tanks, frigates, artillery, small arms because they have industries that are just about capable of doing it and that need the work.In the days where direct subsidies to heavy industry are forbidden by the EU its going to become more common.

Of course I'm sure you're right about there being no jet trainers in the pipeline but as soon as CASA or dornier or whoever hit a bad patch I'll be willing to bet that they'll produce something, that will of course meet their respective nations exacting requirements

 

[kato]

Currently in use in AEJPT member states:

Germany/Spain/Portugal/Netherlands/Greece :
ENJPPT participants - T-37 (subsonic) and T-38 (supersonic)

Spain additionally: C-101 (subsonic) and SF-5B (supersonic)
Greece additionally: T-2E (subsonic)
note: Greece and Spain also train pilots locally on these aircraft, in addition to ENJPPT

Italy: MB-339CD (subsonic) and M-346 (high subsonic)
Belgium/France*: Alpha Jet (high subsonic)
Austria/Sweden (non-NATO): Saab-105 (high subsonic)

*- joint training program

ENJPPT probably accounts for roughly 50% of trained pilots, with the other assets of its member states for at least 60-65%.

CASA and Dornier are part of EADS nowadays. Italy and Sweden are the only producers of jet trainer aircraft in AEJPT outside EADS, and Saab doesn't have anything new in the pipe.
The only competitors to EADS Mako HEAT (pretty much dead by now) and M-346 in the early pre-selections were the Korean T-50 and Bae Hawk, both deleted pretty early on as of course they do not provide for domestic subsidies.