EA/18G Growler

[Malayali]

Boeing rolled out the EA/18G Growler early this week.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/ea18g/index.htmlhttp://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/ea18g/index.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-18g.htm

 

[RubiconNZ]

Question?

Could anyone see the Growler being suitable for medium size airforces
I'm trying to see if this is a one man horse bascially, obviously the capabilities it could bring would benefit any air force but is is worth the investment, which Airforce could/use operate them?

Japan, Canada, Taiwan, UK, South Korean, Singapore

I would be interested in perhaps 15-24 Growlers for the RAAF for example, however other than offensive capability will the Wedgetail have some jamming abilities which would eliminate the need.

The RAAF use their Trainers as FAC Aircraft would they be useful in this area as they are predicted to have a rather decent battlespace managment ability?

 

[Magoo]

I would be interested in perhaps 15-24 Growlers for the RAAF for example, however other than offensive capability will the Wedgetail have some jamming abilities which would eliminate the need.

Maybe 6-8 Growlers, but it's a pretty spcialised aircraft for a 'blue collar' air force like the RAAF. More likely is, if we get Super Hornets, they'll be wired for but not with the ALQ-99 pods etc, and we might keep a couple of Growler kits in storage.

The RAAF use their Trainers as FAC Aircraft would they be useful in this area as they are predicted to have a rather decent battlespace managment ability?

Ahh, not quite. the PC-9 FACs are FAC Trainers only, NOT operational FAC aircraft. They are used to train special forces and fast FAC pilots in how to work with and as FACs, that's all.

Magoo

 

[Aussie Digger]

Maybe 6-8 Growlers, but it's a pretty spcialised aircraft for a 'blue collar' air force like the RAAF. More likely is, if we get Super Hornets, they'll be wired for but not with the ALQ-99 pods etc, and we might keep a couple of Growler kits in storage.

Ahh, not quite. the PC-9 FACs are FAC Trainers only, NOT operational FAC aircraft. They are used to train special forces and fast FAC pilots in how to work with and as FACs, that's all.

Magoo

And "conventional army" JOST teams...

I think it highly unlikely RAAF will acquire Growlers UNLESS we also acquire the "garden variety" Super Hornets, in which case something has gone MAJORLY wrong with the F-35 program...

Wasn't there an "EA-35" (electronic attack variant of F-35) on the drawing board at one stage? USAF would most probably be interested in this aircraft having lost it's "offensive" EA capability when the Raven was retired without an obvious replacement...

 

[RubiconNZ]

Ahh, not quite. the PC-9 FACs are FAC Trainers only, NOT operational FAC aircraft. They are used to train special forces and fast FAC pilots in how to work with and as FACs, that's all.

Magoo

Ahh alright, I did find it odd, makes sense, what is the follow on aircraft if any?

 

[Magoo]

Ahh alright, I did find it odd, makes sense, what is the follow on aircraft if any?

Under project AIR5428, the RAAF will probably choose between the Pilatus PC-21, Raytheon T-6B II, Embraer Super Tucano or Aermacchi S311. There was an awesome article in Australian Aviation's July issue which went through it all.

Magoo

 

[Magoo]

I think it highly unlikely RAAF will acquire Growlers UNLESS we also acquire the "garden variety" Super Hornets, in which case something has gone MAJORLY wrong with the F-35 program...

Watch this space... you might be surprised.

Wasn't there an "EA-35" (electronic attack variant of F-35) on the drawing board at one stage? USAF would most probably be interested in this aircraft having lost it's "offensive" EA capability when the Raven was retired without an obvious replacement...

If they can get the F-35's APG-81 and its EW gear right, then these baseline items will provide a fairly strong electronic attack capability. I think the EA-18Gs will likely be operated by joint USAF/USN units much as the EA-6Bs are currently being run.

Magoo

 

[The_Jet]

Watch this space... you might be surprised.

You know something that everyone else don't know?

 

[Magoo]

You know something that everyone else don't know?

I don't "know", but I do suspect something may be in the wind. With F-35 slipping sideways, DefMin has asked for a "fully developed alternative option" to take to second pass in 2008, however they may not have to wait that long.

We should have a much better idea of JSF's future before the US mid-term elections in November.

Magoo

 

[rossfrb_1]

I am unsure of the current status of the super hornet production line. I found an article which stated that funding for super hornet production was available until 2004
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAX/is_6_82/ai_66581553
I think the growler version (and yes I smile every time!) is currently in production, as of June this year. But they mention Northrop Grumman not Boeing?? Have I missed a merger somewhere, or is NG responsible for the EW kit?
So I'm guessing there might be some slack time that Boeing would be happy to fill with a RAAF E/F super hornet order.
How soon would such a decision need to be made such that the funds proposed for the current RAAF hornet CBR program don't need to be wasted?
Magoo, re the fitted for but not with idea re growler )) jamming pods. Just how feasible is that? Wouldn't the pilots/operators need to train with the kit on some sort of regular basis for proficiency?

rb

 

[Aussie Digger]

Under project AIR5428, the RAAF will probably choose between the Pilatus PC-21, Raytheon T-6B II, Embraer Super Tucano or Aermacchi S311. There was an awesome article in Australian Aviation's July issue which went through it all.

Magoo

Nice plug!!! nfloorl:

 

[Magoo]

Nice plug!!! nfloorl:

Was it that obvious???

 

[Magoo]

I am unsure of the current status of the super hornet production line. I found an article which stated that funding for super hornet production was available until 2004.

Boeing is about 200 aircraft into a 450 multi-year production run for the US Navy, so there's probably about four to six years of production to go.

Growler is in low rate initial production (LRIP), and will ramp up in 2008.

All Block 2 F/A-18Fs are plumbed and wired to carry EA-18G jamming equipment which can be swapped between airframes. The idea is to always have about 90 Growlers on line regardless of maintenance requirements, although we'll see how this pans out operationally.
Nothrop Grumman makes the latest version of the ALQ-99 jammer system which has been designed specifically for the EA-18G, and is a sub contractor on the program.

Magoo, re the fitted for but not with idea re growler )) jamming pods. Just how feasible is that? Wouldn't the pilots/operators need to train with the kit on some sort of regular basis for proficiency?

Yes, a dedicated jammer crew would need to retain a degree of currency, so my "for, not with" suggestion may not be feasible operationally. Interestingly, a Super Hornet recently demonstrated a limited electronic attack capability by using its ALR-67(v)3 EW kit to direct its APG-79 radar against an electronic emitter and successfully jam it. I'm told the Super has other capabilities such as this yet to be revealed.

Magoo

 

[Aussie Digger]

Was it that obvious???

It was practically sign posted... It WAS a fair read though so I won't be too harsh...

 

[Magoo]

It was practically sign posted... It WAS a fair read though so I won't be too harsh...

Only "fair"???

 

[Whiskyjack]

Yes, a dedicated jammer crew would need to retain a degree of currency, so my "for, not with" suggestion may not be feasible operationally. Interestingly, a Super Hornet recently demonstrated a limited electronic attack capability by using its ALR-67(v)3 EW kit to direct its APG-79 radar against an electronic emitter and successfully jam it. I'm told the Super has other capabilities such as this yet to be revealed.

Magoo

Have RAAF personnel flying with the US operationally on exchange etc.. might be one way.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Only "fair"???

"Fair" meaning: good. Still, I think the HMAS Anzac and Seahawk "Atlantic" deployment was the best article I've read this year in AA. No disrespect intended of course... :

IN relation to a possible RAAF F/A-18E/F buy/lease, how will it effect the Hornet CBR program? Unless of course they are intending the SH to replace the "oldest" platforms and only do the minimum already funded??? If the SH is to replace the F-111 early as mentioned, the Hornets will still need to be refurbished...

 

[Magoo]

"Fair" meaning: good. Still, I think the HMAS Anzac and Seahawk "Atlantic" deployment was the best article I've read this year in AA. No disrespect intended of course... :

Agree it was a good read - Tony Holmes is a good writer.

IN relation to a possible RAAF F/A-18E/F buy/lease, how will it effect the Hornet CBR program? Unless of course they are intending the SH to replace the "oldest" platforms and only do the minimum already funded??? If the SH is to replace the F-111 early as mentioned, the Hornets will still need to be refurbished...

Firstly, I think we can discount any possibility of a lease - why would you lease a combat aircraft which may be shot down and over which you have no sovereign rights? Imagine the insurance???

As for affecting HUG 3.2 (centre barrels), it all depends on the timing. Our first aircraft is being re-barrelled as we speak (or as we type), and work on the rest of the fleet is expected to kick off this time next year. I guess we'd better have Plan B up and running by then if we're headed down that road! Currently CBRs 15 are funded and DMO is asking for funding for up to 49.

48 Super Hornets could probably adequately cover the replacement of the F-111s in 2010, and as the 'classics' time-expire from 2010, carry us comfortably through to a mature JSF arriving in 2017-2021, and then form the lower of a two-tiered combat force.

Magoo

 

[Aussie Digger]

Agree it was a good read - Tony Holmes is a good writer.



Firstly, I think we can discount any possibility of a lease - why would you lease a combat aircraft which may be shot down and over which you have no sovereign rights? Imagine the insurance???

As for affecting HUG 3.2 (centre barrels), it all depends on the timing. Our first aircraft is being re-barrelled as we speak (or as we type), and work on the rest of the fleet is expected to kick off this time next year. I guess we'd better have Plan B up and running by then if we're headed down that road! Currently CBRs 15 are funded and DMO is asking for funding for up to 49.

48 Super Hornets could probably adequately cover the replacement of the F-111s in 2010, and as the 'classics' time-expire from 2010, carry us comfortably through to a mature JSF arriving in 2017-2021, and then form the lower of a two-tiered combat force.

Magoo

Plenty of nations "lease" combat aircraft. NZ intended to with it's proposed F-16 fleet and Italy currently does with it's fleet of 34x F-16A/B's. Austria is also currently leasing 12x F-5II's until it's Typhoons arrive, so it's not un-precedented.

Boeing also offered such a lease to Australia a while back with the deal being that Canada would eventually purchase the aircraft in 2015 or so...

It would be a way of gaining a deterrent without the capital expenditure involved in purchasing a new aircraft fleet and would mean that when JSF is ready we could purchase an entirely new fleet that we prefer at a time that suits us better (ie: when most of the risk has been eliminated and the costs AND capability are more accurately known...)

Let's face it, we're hardly likely to want to use the aircraft in a situation the US disapproved of, are we?

 

[Magoo]

Plenty of nations "lease" combat aircraft. NZ intended to with it's proposed F-16 fleet and Italy currently does with it's fleet of 34x F-16A/B's. Austria is also currently leasing 12x F-5II's until it's Typhoons arrive, so it's not un-precedented.

Boeing also offered such a lease to Australia a while back with the deal being that Canada would eventually purchase the aircraft in 2015 or so...

It would be a way of gaining a deterrent without the capital expenditure involved in purchasing a new aircraft fleet and would mean that when JSF is ready we could purchase an entirely new fleet that we prefer at a time that suits us better (ie: when most of the risk has been eliminated and the costs AND capability are more accurately known...)

Let's face it, we're hardly likely to want to use the aircraft in a situation the US disapproved of, are we?

Yeah, true, but just from my discussions with people in the know, a lease wouldn't be considered. The next combat aircraft we get we're going to buy and keep for a long time. Boeing offered a lease as a last ditch measure to get us into the Super, but their and our preference was always for a sale. They're now pushing the Super as part of a two-tiered capability and more importantly perhaps, as a staggered buy so you're not spending all $15.5 billion in one whack!

Cheers

Magoo