Dutch Army Questions

[Dutch Nico]

Hello People

Iam Nico 27 years old and live in a small town called Drachten in the Netherlands.
First of all i like to say that iam a regualar visitor of this site and follow the news close from this site.
And in my opinion this is one of the best sites arround when it comes to defence talks.

If you follow the dutch news and read the papers than everyone around the world have some issues regarding the dutch army or its politics, some of those issues are true and need to be fixed and other issues are complete Bull...T!!:lul

And now iam getting a little confused here because we the dutch people are having problems with our goverment because its lacking power and progress, actually its in a very bad shape even i a proud dutchman must admit that the dutch goverment is fooling around with money and all the things they should do.
They fight, talk and kisses ass from every idiot around the world.nfloorl: :nutkick

But to start my point here, i was wondering and have some big guestions and i hope you guys can help me out.

Here in the news the goverment is saying: We do not like dead soldiers and we do not like to send more troops to Afganistan or other country's in general.
A nother newschannel or news paper reports: Dutch goverment sends more troops to Afganistan.
And so on every day new news with differend speeches and actions from our goverment its very confusing.
In the mean time they still send loads of army related stuff and nonarmed and armed personel to all the country's where they are active at this very moment.
So this costs loads of money.
Personally i think that it is great and good to be able to help people around the world and i think that in the end the result would be good, at least i hope so.

But as everyone knows the dutch cuttbacks on defence in general is degrading the actuall effectiviness of the dutch armed forces.
Also the little size of our army is shocking.:shudder
They keep selling ships and other army related material.
Some of this material is really outdated so its oke to sell them.
But they are also selling stuff that is not outdated but with the new buget not allowed due the high maintance costs.
So when they keep selling and degrading our current forces we will not be able to do a real job in future missions.


Its my understanding that:
The dutch naval is cutting edge but rather very small.
My questions are:
Are these naval forces really that good and cutting edge?
Whats your opinion about the dutch navy? (In General)
What should we dutch people think about the dutch navy?
And what would be needed to be a solid partner of the current EU or Navo?

Dutch army:
Some international people, papers and websites are burning down our boy's out there in the field they say we are cowards we do not fight we do not have proper weapons and training and we are a bunch of idiot's with no minds at all.
When i see yourtube video's then from time to time i see dutch guys doing really nice work but the bad words keep spreading about the dutch army in general.

So my quistions here are:
What do you think of the dutch forces in general?
How would you rate the work they do in war zones?
What should be improved?


And i also read and hear stuff about the dutch airforce, some say that the dutch F-16's and pilots are unmatchedin there class and do a great job.
There are also rumors that say the dutch airforces has a very high technical level of planes and training and weapons and they should be regarded as very good.

If this is true? i really do not know so i ask you guys:
What is fact and what is true about the dutch Royal Air Forces,
Are they really that good?
Are these pilots really doing a good job?
And what should the netherlands do to get there airforces to a good level?


The reason i ask this questions is simply i was talking to some friends and family and everyone has his own idea's so ill turn to you guys because there are here on this site more people with know how from this kind of quistions than probably in the hole netherlands.
I did search the local official website's but could not find any usefull things.
And reading news papers is also not helping in anyway.
So i hope that you guys can help me out here and explain to me what you think.

And my last quistion is, what are the strong points of the netherlands?
and what is the weak point of the netherlands?

So please reply freely and say what you think and what you know.


Anyway i wish you all a very good day, and thanks for the help.

Greetz Nico

 

[Generalissimo]

On the issue of the Dutch Army's reputation, there are a lot of idiots out there that like to trash the contribution of the EU countries to the mission in Afghanistan. But the Dutch are showing their mettle by deploying to Southern A-stan. They've been in some pretty heavy combat.

 

[gvg]

One thing the Dutch really lack is heavy air-lift. And the Salis (An-124) and the NATO-SAC (C-17's) will not provide enough heavy-lift for the Dutch.

Another thing that could be improved is, as you already mentioned, the amount spent on defence. Current predictions are it will fall to 1,1% in 2011.

 

[Eggy]

You can read the (national) media but I don't think you'll learn anything from it. They're always negative about Afghanistan and Iraq.

The Navy is small but pretty high tech. It's especially small compared to the fleet we had during the Cold War. We went from about 20 escort ships to just six in 15-20 years.

The army has seen plenty of combat in Uruzgan province. Just last week 11 WIA. I think the Srebrenica massacre has given the army a bad name but that was unjustified. I think anyone claiming that our soldiers don't fight and are cowards should get their head out of their arse.

Our air force has apaches, chinooks and f-16 deployed to Southern Afghanistan as well. The only other countries who have that many assets there are the US and the UK. We're punching way above our weight in that regard.

Yes the budget is a concern. There have been no cuts this year, the budget has increased somewhat. But for the future a clearer defense spending guideline is needed if the goverment wants to keep up current deployment levels. There is already a investigation underway that will adress this issue.

 

[onslaught]

The Dutch have already started cooperation in the JSF F-35 program so that will DEFINITELY be a big improvement of the Air Force. As for training, the Netherlands isn't a poor country and can afford to buy things like simulators for their pilots. In addition, the Dutch Air Force also has training programs in the US that have stretched back to WWII. As for the airlift problem, the Netherlands is getting some C-17's but that still won't solve the problem completely. I think's it's a matter of quantity here. As a whole, the Dutch have done a good job in Uruzgan and have held the region despite repeated attacks by the Taliban; that's for sure.

 

[gvg]

Article about the (capabilities of the) Royal Netherlands Air Force here.

The same article has been published in the Air Power Revue der Schweizer Armee 12/2004, but in German.
In that (German) version this was said about the author (the English version doesn't mention the author):
Christian F.Anrig, MA, verfasst seine Doktor arbeit zum Thema europäische Luftmacht an der Forschungsstelle für Sicherheitspolitik der ETH Zürich und am Department of War Studies, King’s College London. Er ist zudem Mitglied des Miliz-Fachstabs Luftwaffendoktrin.

Well, at least it makes him objective (I hope), which I am not. So (for now) I'll leave it to others to comment the (lack of) capabilities of the Dutch armed forces. ;-)

 

[neil]

I believe any country capable of deploying a battle group in heavy combat many thousands of kilometers away from home has a military to be reckoned with.

The Dutch armed forces are getting smaller, but who isn't? Even the UK and US militaries are shrinking.

One of the things that any military is built on, is tradition. And you need look only at the Netherlands Army to see that the Dutch armed forces is rich with tradition, with some regiments dating from centuries ago.

The Netherlands is certainly lacking in some areas, e.g. air lift and stand off precision strike(hopefully this will eventually be rectified by the acquisition of Naval Tomahawks from the US).

Anyway, I reckon the Netherlands defenitely plays in the top defence league.

 

[ArmyAmy]

On the issue of the Dutch Army's reputation, there are a lot of idiots out there that like to trash the contribution of the EU countries to the mission in Afghanistan. But the Dutch are showing their mettle by deploying to Southern A-stan. They've been in some pretty heavy combat.

Wow, I learn more from the internet than i ever learned from the news.