Donald Gregg distorts the facts

[powerfulguy]

The remarks of Donald Gregg, former U.S. ambassador to Korea, are wrongly understood in Korea and are causing a controversy.

Press Articles Related to the Remarks of Donald Gregg, Former U,S. Ambassador to Korea.

1. MBC Radio 'News Square' Interview(Sep. 3rd)
The Russian investigation team had no access to the direct evidence material from the Cheonan incident, and was not allowed conduct experiments on its own. As such, its investigation was doomed to fail.
Due to these circumstances, the Russian investigation team's results that the Cheonan sank due to a mine instead of a torpedo can only be provisional.

2. TBS eFM 'This Morning' Interview (9. 3)
The Russian investigation team was stonewalled in carrying out its investigation, and the Chinese government was also encouraged not to conduct an investigation regarding the Cheonan issue, therefore the Chinese government did not send an investigation team to Korea.

The Official Reply from the South Korean Ministry of Defense Regarding the Remarks of Former U.S. Ambassador Donald Gregg​

The comment that "the Korean military interfered with the Russian investigators' inspection", made by Donald Gregg, Former U,S. Ambassador to Korea.

The Russian investigation team conducted an investigation on the South Korean naval vessel 'Cheonan' from last May 31st to June 7th, and at that time colonel Igor Ivanovic, director of the Russian Navy Command's underwater weapons system, visited Korea.

Regarding its main investigation works, the team was first briefed by the Korean civil-military joint investigation team on the investigation results. Afterwards each division of the Russian investigation team confirmed the results and moved to Pyongtaek where the team performed an on-site inspection and 3 joint discussions with the Korean investigation team.

Following the on-site inspection, the Russian investigation team interviewed captain Choi Wonil of the Cheonan and 4 survivors on the 2nd of June. During the investigation period, the team precisely inspected the body of Cheonan and its torpedo propelling device twice, and took a look at the experimental torpedo from North Korea that was acquired off the coast of Pohang in 2003.

At that time, the civil-military joint investigation team handed over 40 types of investigation results, including joint investigation results, underwater explosion simulation results, and the combined intelligence analysis results to the Russian investigation team.

The Russian investigation team's reaction was that the team respects the results of the civil-military investigation team composed of experts from various nations, and the team agreed that the Cheonan sank due to a non-contact outside explosion. Also, the Russian investigation team said that the investigation results handed over to them by the civil-military joint investigation team were valuable material that distinguished experts have analyzed for almost 2 months. A Russian military official also carried a note from the Russian ambassador to Korea, who thanked Korean Ministry of Defense for its sincerity in providing support to the Russian investigation team.

Ambassador Gregg is a layman in analysing the sinking of a military vessel. Also, his remarks came out when he did not have a clear understanding of the matter, and his remarks greatly tarnished the pride and honor of the South Koreans.

People of South Korea are still aching over the pain of the Cheonan incident.
We hope that no such incidents happen again.

 

[LetsTry Reason]

Conspiracy theory?

That's begging the question, petitio principii. Is it "conspiracy theory"? Is it outlandishly false? Have you proven that?

Is it "held by a person judged to be a crank or a group confined to the lunatic fringe," such as(?) the aforementioned physicist and professor in the American universities, and the millions and millions of South Korean and Korean-American citizens?

Were Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein of the Washington Post conspiracy theorists too?

Maybe a false analogy.
Rather, it may be
"it certainly has echoes of conspiracy theories like those surrounding the 1972 Watergate Break-in of President Richard M. Nixon."


The comparison to the Warren Commission seems absurd.
Maybe a false analogy, once again.

The South Korean JIG(Joint Investigation Group) was no Warren Commission.
The JIG's chairman was not the Chief Justice
of South Korea.
The JIG's members were not at all filled with the South Korean National Assembly Members and legal counsels like the Warren Commission was.

 

[LetsTry Reason]

To the “outside” world intellectuals who don’t read Korean,

This is a remarkable story of people – the governed(although they are in theory supposed to be the actual governor in democracy), not their government - making difference in the world (history).

1. Compare and contrast.
“More enlightened” American people, Congress and media; Bush; WMD; War (and huge suffering),
(whitehouser.c__/war/CIA-confirms-Bush-WMD-lie )
and,
“Supposedly less so enlightened” Korean people; Korean President Lee; Cheonan; prevention of War (so far).
(I am including among ‘the Korean people’ the Korean-Americans.)

2. Also remarkable is that the “inside” Korean people braved the government prosecution.
Caveat: Under the current South Korean regime, South Korean citizens can be sued for defamation by their own government officials, and defamation in South Korea is a crime (as well as a civil offense) prosecuted by the government’s own centrally controlled national prosecutors who selectively choose or choose not whom to prosecute.
Recently, Shin Sang-cheol, “an expert placed on the JIG [Joint Investigation Group] by” the National Assembly, got (criminally) sued for defamation by a government official for expressing disagreement over the current South Korean regime’s version of the Cheonan Incident. (zimbio.c__/Mizuho+Fukushima/articles/BvIMjqn_oLw/South+Korean+Investigation+Team+Member+Mr )

(South Korean people’s firsthand knowledge about the pro-government polls is that they are ridiculously overinflated.
A proof: war-fear-mongering South Korean President Lee Myung-bak got unexpectedly humiliated on the June 2 election by the “Supposedly less so enlightened” Korean people,
when “survey conducted by the major daily [pro-government]Dong-A Ilbo and the Korea Research Center from May 24 to 26[7-days-before] forecast[ed] that Oh would beat Han by 20.8 percent.”
Actual election result: 0.6 percent(=”47.4 percent”-”46.8 percent.”)
Source: joongangdaily.joins.c__/article/view.asp?aid=2921960 )

3. A list of early English publications on Questions on the Cheonan Incident and the Power of South Korean Netizens can be found at korea.true.ws (by LetsTry Reason) and newer writings at letstryreason.wordpress.c__ .

Also, look at: “the U.S, South Korea, the U.K, Canada and Australia, but not Sweden [NOT Sweden], contributed to the second-statement findings [claiming that North Korea might be guilty]” – “Five reasons why the the JIG’s 5-page statement cannot be considered scientific and objective, nor … ‘international’”
japanfocus.org/-JOHN-MCGLYNN/3372 ;
“Russian Probe Sees No North Korea Hand In Cheonan Sinking! Russia Says Sea Mine Sunk Cheonan”
socioecohistory.wordpress.c__/2010/07/28/russian-probe-sees-no-north-korea-hand-in-cheonan-sinking/ ;
willyloman.wordpress.c__/2010/06/30/pcc-772-cheonan-south-korean-government-admits-the-deception-and-then-lies-about-it/ ;
nature.c__/news/2010/080710/full/news.2010.343.html ;
latimes.c__/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-korea-torpedo-20100724,0,4196801,full.story

4. Compare and contrast.
9/11; Al-Qaeda; brags We did it(, was not wrong, not sorry about it and we will do it again).
Cheonan; North Korea; brags We didn’t do it (therefore, presumably, was wrong, sorry about it and we will not do it). (Why the difference?)
Crime and punishment. If we are taking consequentialist moral philosophy, and if the utilitarian utility of punishment is to prevent future crime, then punishment serves little or no purpose (maybe to others but not)to North Korea who says ‘We didn’t do it,’ because either (a) the North didn’t do it, therefore the punishment will be outrageous injustice,
or (b) the North did do it, but ‘We didn’t do it’ basically implies ‘We will not do it.’
(This particular ‘it’ hardly gives the North any payoff.)
*If you don’t get scared of us, how can We become the terrorist, and if you don’t know We did it, how can you get scared of us?

5. Representative democracy is not pure democracy. (Pure)Direct democracy of a nation-size is now (or becoming) possible, through recent developments in computer science and technology, making secure private Internet-voting, democratic online discussions, cheap instantaneous micro referendum and freedom of choice to vote directly on an issue or use an agent possible.
The science (computer science) should finally make the people, the governed, the actual de facto governor in democracy.

6. I take this honor of hereby formally asking the folks in Norway to consider awarding a Nobel Peace Prize to the “Supposedly less so enlightened” Korean people including myself,
who in early days, among various activities, proposed the “outside” world contact initiative for the Cheonan peace, providing email addresses of all the foreign embassies in Korea, U.N., Hillary, Obama, and the foreign media.