Diggers ROE in Iraq

scraw

New Member
Noticed this little snippet in an article about injuries in Afghanistan here

Brigadier Gilmore also revealed that Australian soldiers in Iraq had wounded a man who fired shots at them.

He said the incident happened on Monday night when the man began firing on the Australian patrol near the city of Samawah.

"Our patrol issued a verbal warning, the firing continued so they returned fire and withdrew from the area," he said.


"Initial reports are that an Iraqi national was injured. No Australian Defence Force (ADF) personnel were injured during this incident."


Now, it seems rather odd to me that one guy with (I'm assuming) an AK-47 results in the patrol withdrawing.

Was this another incident where he was part of the local 'security forces' (ie. private militias) and they didn't want to annoy one of the local power brokers or are they pretty much there to fly the flag and as far as possible not fight anyone?
 

TrangleC

New Member
Is it Afghanistan or Iraq now?

I guess they suspected to be lured into an ambush or simply that the guy could get help when they stay too long.
 

scraw

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
TrangleC said:
Is it Afghanistan or Iraq now?

I guess they suspected to be lured into an ambush or simply that the guy could get help when they stay too long.
Australia has troops in both.

SASR plus some 4RAR and support troops in Afghanistan (Special Forces Task Group). Soon there's a Provincial Reconstruction team headed there.

  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] around 200 personnel serving in the Special Forces Task Group (SFTG) consisting of Special Air Service (SAS) Regiment, Commandos, Incident Response Regiment (IRR) and logistic support personnel have deployed to Afghanistan to conduct special operations in support of security and reconstruction efforts in the country.
  • [/FONT]

Then there's the AMTG in Iraq (Mostly 2RAR at the moment IIRC).

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Al Muthanna Task Group (AMTG) based in the southern Iraqi province of Al Muthanna is made up of around 470 personnel and consists of a headquarters, a cavalry squadron, an infantry company, a training team and 40 Australian Light Armoured Vehicles (ASLAVs) and a number of Bushmasters.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Al Muthanna The Task Group has two tasks: [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Provide a secure environment for the Japanese Iraq Reconstruction and Support Group (JIRSG); and [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Training of local Iraqi Army units so that they are able to take over the internal and external defence of their country[/FONT]
Then theres guys in Baghdad, plus bits and pieces both Navy and Air Force.

Check out:

http://www.defence.gov.au/opcatalyst/

and

http://www.defence.gov.au/opslipper/

for the full rundown.
 

baseline

New Member
From reading the report it claims that a person fired at the Australian patrol.

but instead of firing back, the Australian's issue a verbal warning? :confused:

they only return fire when the hostile apparently ignores their warning "please don’t shoot at us"

this seems like the ROE are a bit screwed up to me. I can understand a gradual escalation of force if some one is threatening you with a knife but if that person has a gun and it is shooting at you, then you shoot back.

The insurgents can fire a few shots at a Aussie patrol and while the aussies are doing their gradual escalation of force thing ,the insurgents escape to fight another day. If this is the standard operating procedure then it stands to reason that the insurgents will see the aussies as a easier target and begin to target the Australians more.

In addition their was a recent incident where a car with armed people inside was permitted to approach an Australian patrol at high speed and even pull in between two ASLAVs. Again their was hand signals and verbal warnings but the patrol did not open fire until the car was in between the two armored vehicles.

If the car had been hostile and been filled with explosives allowing the car to come so close would have resulted in the ASLAVS being severely damaged and potential Australian casualties.

Hopefully in light of these two incidents, the tactics/ ROES will be allow deadlier force to be used before a potential threat can get into position to cause harm to a Australian patrol.

Obviously it’s a balance between reacting too quickly and not acting quickly enough. You don’t want a civilian car being targeted for just being on the same street as a patrol, but on the other hand it looks like things have drifted a bit to far in the avoid collateral damage at all costs direction.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
baseline said:
From reading the report it claims that a person fired at the Australian patrol.

but instead of firing back, the Australian's issue a verbal warning? :confused:

they only return fire when the hostile apparently ignores their warning "please don’t shoot at us"

this seems like the ROE are a bit screwed up to me. I can understand a gradual escalation of force if some one is threatening you with a knife but if that person has a gun and it is shooting at you, then you shoot back.

The insurgents can fire a few shots at a Aussie patrol and while the aussies are doing their gradual escalation of force thing ,the insurgents escape to fight another day. If this is the standard operating procedure then it stands to reason that the insurgents will see the aussies as a easier target and begin to target the Australians more.

In addition their was a recent incident where a car with armed people inside was permitted to approach an Australian patrol at high speed and even pull in between two ASLAVs. Again their was hand signals and verbal warnings but the patrol did not open fire until the car was in between the two armored vehicles.

If the car had been hostile and been filled with explosives allowing the car to come so close would have resulted in the ASLAVS being severely damaged and potential Australian casualties.

Hopefully in light of these two incidents, the tactics/ ROES will be allow deadlier force to be used before a potential threat can get into position to cause harm to a Australian patrol.

Obviously it’s a balance between reacting too quickly and not acting quickly enough. You don’t want a civilian car being targeted for just being on the same street as a patrol, but on the other hand it looks like things have drifted a bit to far in the avoid collateral damage at all costs direction.
The ROE's seem to be working fine to me. How many Australia soldier's have been injured when their ROE's "let them down"? The few times they HAVE responded with force has resulted in deaths on the "other side" most notably with the Iraqi guards incident, but there have been others.

IF we suffered casualties the ROE's might change, but I look at the issue with some pride. We ARE restricted compared to some forces and we take it in our stride and act professionally AND effectively.

There's a problem some don't see however. How are you going to remain on "civil" terms with the population with a "gungho" kill em all attitude???
 
Top