China's new toy

[Pathfinder-X]

this new missile attack boat was spotted in a shanghai shipyard last week, there's been alot of discussion in chinese and pakistani forums. at this poin technical data r not known. most ppl guess it's armed wif 8 C-803 missiles and wut appears to be a russian 630 CIWS system. i'll keep u guys posted when i find out more about it at other forums.
how do u post images??? i dunno how to upload the pics!!! :?

 

[mysterious]

Right click on the picture on the website, click on properties, shade and select the URL, copy it and then paste it in your post but put the URL between the Img tabs in the post msg options window (click Img once, then paste URL and then click Img again). :smokingc:

 

[gf0012-aust]

there's been a lot of discussions on this vessel by some of the naval architects etc and current serving sailors.

The weight touted by the original poster does not make sense with the draught shown when placed in the water.

There are some who are saying that its the movie prop from a James Bond film that was made in 1992

All I know is that with the dimesions that have been discussed, the design of it and it's draught don't make much sense.

I'm leaning towards a functional prop, rather than a working boat

 

[ipfreak]

this new missile attack boat was spotted in a shanghai shipyard last week, there's been alot of discussion in chinese and pakistani forums. at this poin technical data r not known. most ppl guess it's armed wif 8 C-803 missiles and wut appears to be a russian 630 CIWS system. i'll keep u guys posted when i find out more about it at other forums.
how do u post images??? i dunno how to upload the pics!!! :?

is that what were taling about? i almost miss that (i usually search fc-1 orj-10 then read those chinese articles). what is the designation for this boat? looks like some kinda concept testing boat ...

 

[Pathfinder-X]

this new missile attack boat was spotted in a shanghai shipyard last week, there's been alot of discussion in chinese and pakistani forums. at this poin technical data r not known. most ppl guess it's armed wif 8 C-803 missiles and wut appears to be a russian 630 CIWS system. i'll keep u guys posted when i find out more about it at other forums.
how do u post images??? i dunno how to upload the pics!!! :?

is that what were taling about? i almost miss that (i usually search fc-1 orj-10 then read those chinese articles). what is the designation for this boat? looks like some kinda concept testing boat ...

yes dat's the one!!
it's not an concept boat, second boat has already been sighted. i believe chinese is building these boats to gain superiority over south china sea. besides the missile n the CIWS, the boat will be armed wif two .50 cal machine guns.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

 

[adsH]

looks more like an over sized boat house!! :lol only a Joke

 

[Indianguy]

look like small range stealth boat. threat to its neighbours

 

[adsH]

look like small range stealth boat. threat to its neighbours

HOw does stealth boat work i still don't get the idea are they low in acoustic signitures or so they jammers or are they more smoother and quieter in movement. i have seen a pic of the French built Royal Saudi Arabian navy's stealth frigate they apperent have 3 rite now in service with the fourth coming inn shortly but there base is realy smooth and almost aerodynamic lol!! and do you know what are these stealth Ships used for!!

 

[ipfreak]

yeah, missle assult boat alright, u can see that at back. wondering what kinda missles it carries? i know china is working on supersonic missile similar like "sunburn" surface-tosurface missiles. notice the the front deck? there is a single barrel gun mounted. any ideas? could not see any anti-air weapon system. i guess this thing would not go out alone.

it does make sense though. it accompnaies the main fleet (maybe even dock on one big mother ship) and get its information from satelitte, or other ships then get close the target and relaese its missiles.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

yeah, missle assult boat alright, u can see that at back. wondering what kinda missles it carries? i know china is working on supersonic missile similar like "sunburn" surface-tosurface missiles. notice the the front deck? there is a single barrel gun mounted. any ideas? could not see any anti-air weapon system. i guess this thing would not go out alone.

it does make sense though. it accompnaies the main fleet (maybe even dock on one big mother ship) and get its information from satelitte, or other ships then get close the target and relaese its missiles.

rumor has it dat this boat is to join china's navy attack group. posts in chinese forums said becuz china do not pocess a carrier, so they use the new generation DDG and FFG to form attack groups to carryout their "active off-shore defence" doctrine until they r strong enough to challenge japan's navy. da boat is build to be part of dat attack group.
but this is all rumor, no evidence to support dat. i think more likely they r building this boat to gain better superiority over south china sea.

 

[gf0012-aust]

yeah, missle assult boat alright, u can see that at back. wondering what kinda missles it carries? i know china is working on supersonic missile similar like "sunburn" surface-tosurface missiles. notice the the front deck? there is a single barrel gun mounted. any ideas? could not see any anti-air weapon system. i guess this thing would not go out alone.

it does make sense though. it accompnaies the main fleet (maybe even dock on one big mother ship) and get its information from satelitte, or other ships then get close the target and relaese its missiles.

rumor has it dat this boat is to join china's navy attack group. posts in chinese forums said becuz china do not pocess a carrier, so they use the new generation DDG and FFG to form attack groups to carryout their "active off-shore defence" doctrine until they r strong enough to challenge japan's navy. da boat is build to be part of dat attack group.
but this is all rumor, no evidence to support dat. i think more likely they r building this boat to gain better superiority over south china sea.

You really have to take this photos with caution - and look at the reality of the design.

lets assume that it is a real vessel and not a James Bond stage prop from 1992

- it's a low draught wave piercing design - it's not designed to travel in high seas or large sea states - especially in the straits or the sea of Japan, it would sink pretty rapidly

- the absolute draught of the vessel doesn't make sense with its other dimensions - it is incredibly light in the water - as in it must be almost empty

- the Japanese navy with it's O class subs and Aegis skimmers is more than capable of defeating the Chinese Navy, even if all its current builds were available.

if it is a viable design (and not a movie prop) it will only be able to work in conjunction with a larger vessel. It would not survive as an autonomous unit against a reasonable opposition

small wave piercers are in the main, littoral vessels, they are not intended to go "blue", they're a brown water asset.

 

[ipfreak]

yeah, missle assult boat alright, u can see that at back. wondering what kinda missles it carries? i know china is working on supersonic missile similar like "sunburn" surface-tosurface missiles. notice the the front deck? there is a single barrel gun mounted. any ideas? could not see any anti-air weapon system. i guess this thing would not go out alone.

it does make sense though. it accompnaies the main fleet (maybe even dock on one big mother ship) and get its information from satelitte, or other ships then get close the target and relaese its missiles.

rumor has it dat this boat is to join china's navy attack group. posts in chinese forums said becuz china do not pocess a carrier, so they use the new generation DDG and FFG to form attack groups to carryout their "active off-shore defence" doctrine until they r strong enough to challenge japan's navy. da boat is build to be part of dat attack group.
but this is all rumor, no evidence to support dat. i think more likely they r building this boat to gain better superiority over south china sea.

You really have to take this photos with caution - and look at the reality of the design.

lets assume that it is a real vessel and not a James Bond stage prop from 1992

- it's a low draught wave piercing design - it's not designed to travel in high seas or large sea states - especially in the straits or the sea of Japan, it would sink pretty rapidly

- the absolute draught of the vessel doesn't make sense with its other dimensions - it is incredibly light in the water - as in it must be almost empty

- the Japanese navy with it's O class subs and Aegis skimmers is more than capable of defeating the Chinese Navy, even if all its current builds were available.

if it is a viable design (and not a movie prop) it will only be able to work in conjunction with a larger vessel. It would not survive as an autonomous unit against a reasonable opposition

small wave piercers are in the main, littoral vessels, they are not intended to go "blue", they're a brown water asset.

well, the twin-body design is known for its stability in rough water. US sea shadow has already proved that. of couse it looks light now since it is empty. once it fits a couple of missiles, engines and other equipment, you would see its weight. just like sea shadow, once it loaded, u hardly see its twin-body.

it has to work with other ships together in a battle formation. but i think it is more an experimental ship than a designated product line.

 

[gf0012-aust]

well, the twin-body design is known for its stability in rough water. US sea shadow has already proved that. of couse it looks light now since it is empty. once it fits a couple of missiles, engines and other equipment, you would see its weight. just like sea shadow, once it loaded, u hardly see its twin-body.

it has to work with other ships together in a battle formation. but i think it is more an experimental ship than a designated product line.

The Sea Shadow is a stealth insertion vessel, it's a tewin hull, not a wave piercer - they are two very different design briefs. On top of that the SS was not designed to go into high sea states, it was a technology demonstrator only.

if you look at the design of the vessel, it's draughted weight is another 2 metres - thats not going to make it "stealthy" at all. it's not desiged for absolute "stealth", it's designed for high speed travel in relatively benign sea states.

it's a littoral combat vessel

 

[joker]

kinda resembles the trimaran hull (?) design the RN are analysing.

 

[ipfreak]

The Sea Shadow is a stealth insertion vessel, it's a tewin hull, not a wave piercer - they are two very different design briefs. On top of that the SS was not designed to go into high sea states, it was a technology demonstrator only.

if you look at the design of the vessel, it's draughted weight is another 2 metres - thats not going to make it "stealthy" at all. it's not desiged for absolute "stealth", it's designed for high speed travel in relatively benign sea states.

it's a littoral combat vessel

come on pal, that chinese thing (i don't know what i shall call it) has twin-body, single haul, with a big sharp nose to piecrce waves.

well, i don't think anyone here has any clues what it is, i rather wait and see what exactly it will become ...

to me, it is kinda empty, it doesn't look like movie prop. probably some kinda new concept tetsting ship for technology investment . take another 10 years to be useful ...

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Sea Shadow is a stealth insertion vessel, it's a tewin hull, not a wave piercer - they are two very different design briefs. On top of that the SS was not designed to go into high sea states, it was a technology demonstrator only.

if you look at the design of the vessel, it's draughted weight is another 2 metres - thats not going to make it "stealthy" at all. it's not desiged for absolute "stealth", it's designed for high speed travel in relatively benign sea states.

it's a littoral combat vessel

come on pal, that chinese thing (i don't know what i shall call it) has twin-body, single haul, with a big sharp nose to piecrce waves.

well, i don't think anyone here has any clues what it is, i rather wait and see what exactly it will become ...

to me, it is kinda empty, it doesn't look like movie prop. probably some kinda new concept tetsting ship for technology investment . take another 10 years to be useful ...

so whats your issue here? I've already said it's a wave piercing concept. I doubt that it's an operational vessel due to a number of reasons.

The centre bow isn't designed to pierce the water. The two outriggers do the bulk of the work, the centre hull is a frame support and acts like a lifting body as well. The centre bow has nothing to do with cutting through water.

Do you actually understand the concept of how a wave piercing design works??? It's a midget version of an INCAT concept. Hence why the shallow draught, hence why the design is useful for either littoral work or brown water work. A small wave piercer will not last that well in a mild sea state (eg 3) - irrespective of how sexy it may look (which is the same problem that the Sea Shadow had)

Until I see further evidence of it underway and at speed, then I'm not prepared to give it a tick as a real entitiy. It's a potentiolly a CTD, it may well be a real platform, BUT there are some odd displacement issues, design issues.

btw, Australia designs approx 70% of the worlds wave piercing designs, we hold speed and transoceanic records for the designs, and we make the only blue water military versions available, and we have chaired the last 4 years of conferences on the concept at various Naval Forums in Aust, Hawaii and London, so I think we might understand the concept a little.

I'm happy for you to want to believe in it - I don't as yet. When I see it weighted and fully displaced, then I'm happier to be more generous in some kind of unbridled enthusiasm.

 

[Red aRRow]

Hmmm, can't argue with gf on any naval related threads.
I'd like to get a second opinion too from that shamsi dude who used to hang out here sometimes.

If the vessel is real, then it looks like the Chinese did wanted to be a low observable vehicle. I don't see a flat surface to any direction from which a radar might be trained on it (except from the air perhaps). Anyways I guess since littoral vessels are near the coast so they are pretty much "hidden" on radar screens being near the coast and all. (<<<<GF can you confirm this theory of mine?).

 

[gf0012-aust]

Hmmm, can't argue with gf on any naval related threads.
I'd like to get a second opinion too from that shamsi dude who used to hang out here sometimes.

If the vessel is real, then it looks like the Chinese did wanted to be a low observable vehicle. I don't see a flat surface to any direction from which a radar might be trained on it (except from the air perhaps). Anyways I guess since littoral vessels are near the coast so they are pretty much "hidden" on radar screens being near the coast and all. (<<<<GF can you confirm this theory of mine?).

I haven't seen Shamsi on the other forums for a while either so I guess he's busy with work, the last email I had from him was about 2-3 months ago.

The vessel is designed for lower obervability, but it's not stealthy from a frontal aspect, it has low obersvability for flank views as well.

You're correct about it's observability by air assets - which is why strike forces favour air assets to confirm or assist in identifying ground/naval targets.

Smaller high speed vessels are ideal for littoral work, which is why the Danes and Norwegians favour the concept - they can blend with clutter etc... Chinas east coast between Hong Kong is very similar in some respects, a lot of fjord type inlets, high cliff faces, small islands for masking etc. They would be in their element in such an environment, but if their design intent is to be aggressors, I can't see full utility being realised in blue water engagements. They're a 21st century version of the german E-boat concept.

I think it's an interesting design, but something doesn't seem right about it as far as length, width, displacement issues. I guess I'll just wait for more shots to be made available. Smaller wave piercers are very much prone to rocking. The majority of designs I've seen steer clear away from small OPV designs like this due to inherent motion problems with hull design and absolute length and weight.

As I said, I'll be more interested when I see it at full displacement so that I can see how much of the hull "blades" are submerged.

The critical issue on these is:

absolute displacement
power to weight
centre hull design (critical for determining if lift is critical part of the forward speed dynamic)

I can't see any devices used to assist in hydroplaning the hull, and the blades seem far to small in absolute height. If thats the case, then it won't be able to travel at speed.

Thats one of the many reasons why I can't make a clear sense of it.

 

[CSS]

I do agreed to gf0012 that the vessel might be intended for littoral ops.

Maybe PLA plan to deploy such craft around Spratly Islands at South China Sea supported by larger vessel. A frigate maybe. :?

Using such kind of craft will be an added advantages to counter Asean countries patrol vessel around the area. No need for them to deploy a squadron of their large combat vessel. (which they can redeploy to other area).