Chechnya?
- Thread starter Bfn42
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In a word - No.Bfn42 said:
The russians are highly unlikely to accept any US offered assistance into a specific environment - it might get a chance if it was advertised as part of a mutual admiration society event under a "war on global terror" banner - but not as it stands. even then I doubt it would happen.
for an analogous comparison, look at the Kursk. The British, French and eventually Americans all offered assistance within 24hrs of the disaster, but were comprehensively diverted if not rebuffed. As a result, men died unnecessarily.
Too much loss of face involved.
The US will never get involved on the side of Russia. The only reason the US has not supported Chechan seperatists b/c it would undermine US/RU relations. Many in the foreign affairs community view the Chechan rebellion simply as an extension of the collapse of the Soviet Union. They ask "Why should Chechnia not gain independence when all the other former Soviet states did?" Considering 200,000 civilians have died out of a population of 1.3million it is clearly a case of genocide. I and many others in intellectual circles find it very disturbing that the Russian Federation won't stop considering 30,000 Russian conscripts have been killed.:shudderBfn42 said:
Big-E,
what do you know about Russia, its history, its people? Are all americans wallowed in ignorance hypocrites? Chechnia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. have been the parts of Russian Empire long before the USSR was found.
And what will your government do if some "seperatists" in Texas, for instance, try to gain independence from the USA and kill thousands of americans in Dallas or Houston?
Your grandfathers killed hundreds of thousands of indians, occupied their land, created reservations. Isn't that a real genocide?
Why should indians not gain independence?
Nowadays americans look like nazi before WWII. They bomb whom they want, they call american enemies terrorists and russian enemies - separatists, they kill children and women in Serbia, Iraq, Afganistan. Ah, of course, they protect democracy! (or, maybe, strategic resources, Comrade Wolf?
)And tell me, does your country build the biggest army in the world to fight with terrorists or to conquer the world like Hitler?
You don't know what is the russian revolution terror. You don't know what is a real war in your homeland, when it is burned down. You don't know what does it mean, when 27 million of your nationals are killed in one war. You don't know how tragic our history is. And you don't know that 400.000 russian were killed in Chechnia by "separatists" before Russia began the war. You don't know that 500.000 serbians were killed in Kosovo by albanian "separatists". Tell me, isn't that a real genocide against russians or serbians?
And why do you call separatists, who killed in 9/11 attacks 3.000 americans, terrorists? Maybe they are rebels?
And tell me, who began the Cold War? Russians with their homeland in disruption or americans? And tell me, who dropped the nuclear bomb on japans, russians or americans (isn't that the genocide of japans, ah?)? And who killed millions in Vietnam with barbarian weapons, russians or americans? Isn't that the genocide of vietnams?
I know, my words doesn't mean anything to you, but I must remind you that all three world conquerors (Mongols, Napoleon and Hitler) were stopped by russians. And, be sure, they will stop the fourth one.
Good luck, yankee!
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Woh Nellie!!!
Their some big words their buddy! Mate i sypathise with the russian people for the criminal terrorist attacks you've suffered lately. You have every right to defend yourselves againt such atrosaties. But calling the yanks nazies? I believe General Powell said it best 'no army in the history of warfare conquored as much ground as the Americans in world war 2 and all they asked in return was enogh ground to bury their dead'. And then through the Marshal program spent Billions of dollars rebuilding the rest of the world. Wasn't it the 'lend lease' program that provided the Red army with thousands of tonnes of essential supplies and equipment that helped you to defeat Whermacht? Sure the U.S. has some black spots in their past. Their treatment of the native americans was dispicable (so was the Australian treatment of Aboriganies) but if i'm not missinformed dont they have semi-independance. i dont mean foreghin policy but their own legal systems are respected. Do the chechneyans enjoy that? Are you really defending the ethnic cleansing of croatian muslims by serbs. The DELIBERATE killing of thousands of unarmed civilian men, the rape of thousands of wimon and the displacement of hundereds of thousands in the name of serbian superiority! Did the albainians in kosovo suffer the same fate? Come on. And yes 70 000 odd people were killed in the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki but how many lives were saved? Conservative estimates for casualties in the invasion of the Japanese home islands were 100 000 allied dead and 2 million japanese, civians included! And i think it was your goverment who killed 20 million of your own people, 'enemies of the state' was the term used. And wasn't it the Russians who blokaded berlin attempting to starve and freeze hundreds of thousands of civilians? i wouldn't be preaching to any american about genocide mate! And if you actually read a few history books reguarding the alliance between brittan, the U.S and russia you'll see that stalin took advantage of Rosevelts goodwill throughout the latter parts of the war. The causes of the cold war lay in Russian imperialist ambitions, not in washington! You might think words like freedom and liberty are just propaganda but their the fundamentals of all our scocieties (you know wersten liberal democracies where people anren't shot for having different oppinions). After the amount that the people of America have done for the world often with no hope of gain forthemselves, any reference to them being Nazies is porpaganda and just outrite offencive!!
geronimo said:Big-E,
what do you know about Russia, its history, its people? Are all americans wallowed in ignorance hypocrites? Chechnia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. have been the parts of Russian Empire long before the USSR was found.
And what will your government do if some "seperatists" in Texas, for instance, try to gain independence from the USA and kill thousands of americans in Dallas or Houston?
Your grandfathers killed hundreds of thousands of indians, occupied their land, created reservations. Isn't that a real genocide?
Why should indians not gain independence?
Nowadays americans look like nazi before WWII. They bomb whom they want, they call american enemies terrorists and russian enemies - separatists, they kill children and women in Serbia, Iraq, Afganistan. Ah, of course, they protect democracy! (or, maybe, strategic resources, Comrade Wolf?
And tell me, does your country build the biggest army in the world to fight with terrorists or to conquer the world like Hitler?
You don't know what is the russian revolution terror. You don't know what is a real war in your homeland, when it is burned down. You don't know what does it mean, when 27 million of your nationals are killed in one war. You don't know how tragic our history is. And you don't know that 400.000 russian were killed in Chechnia by "separatists" before Russia began the war. You don't know that 500.000 serbians were killed in Kosovo by albanian "separatists". Tell me, isn't that a real genocide against russians or serbians?
And why do you call separatists, who killed in 9/11 attacks 3.000 americans, terrorists? Maybe they are rebels?
And tell me, who began the Cold War? Russians with their homeland in disruption or americans? And tell me, who dropped the nuclear bomb on japans, russians or americans (isn't that the genocide of japans, ah?)? And who killed millions in Vietnam with barbarian weapons, russians or americans? Isn't that the genocide of vietnams?
I know, my words doesn't mean anything to you, but I must remind you that all three world conquerors (Mongols, Napoleon and Hitler) were stopped by russians. And, be sure, they will stop the fourth one.
Good luck, yankee!
Their some big words their buddy! Mate i sypathise with the russian people for the criminal terrorist attacks you've suffered lately. You have every right to defend yourselves againt such atrosaties. But calling the yanks nazies? I believe General Powell said it best 'no army in the history of warfare conquored as much ground as the Americans in world war 2 and all they asked in return was enogh ground to bury their dead'. And then through the Marshal program spent Billions of dollars rebuilding the rest of the world. Wasn't it the 'lend lease' program that provided the Red army with thousands of tonnes of essential supplies and equipment that helped you to defeat Whermacht? Sure the U.S. has some black spots in their past. Their treatment of the native americans was dispicable (so was the Australian treatment of Aboriganies) but if i'm not missinformed dont they have semi-independance. i dont mean foreghin policy but their own legal systems are respected. Do the chechneyans enjoy that? Are you really defending the ethnic cleansing of croatian muslims by serbs. The DELIBERATE killing of thousands of unarmed civilian men, the rape of thousands of wimon and the displacement of hundereds of thousands in the name of serbian superiority! Did the albainians in kosovo suffer the same fate? Come on. And yes 70 000 odd people were killed in the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki but how many lives were saved? Conservative estimates for casualties in the invasion of the Japanese home islands were 100 000 allied dead and 2 million japanese, civians included! And i think it was your goverment who killed 20 million of your own people, 'enemies of the state' was the term used. And wasn't it the Russians who blokaded berlin attempting to starve and freeze hundreds of thousands of civilians? i wouldn't be preaching to any american about genocide mate! And if you actually read a few history books reguarding the alliance between brittan, the U.S and russia you'll see that stalin took advantage of Rosevelts goodwill throughout the latter parts of the war. The causes of the cold war lay in Russian imperialist ambitions, not in washington! You might think words like freedom and liberty are just propaganda but their the fundamentals of all our scocieties (you know wersten liberal democracies where people anren't shot for having different oppinions). After the amount that the people of America have done for the world often with no hope of gain forthemselves, any reference to them being Nazies is porpaganda and just outrite offencive!!
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