Australian Army Aviation: Various Questions

[xjtomjx]

Hey guys,
I'm an Australian Citizen living over in New Zealand (moved here when I was 16 and am 22 now) and am just putting the finishing touches on my Civil Engineering degree (getting decent grades) but have always seen this as more of a means to an end i.e. to open up some doors. Im really interested in flying for the Australian Army as I have always been interested in the military and especially flying but have lacked the grades at high school to follow it up (had some nasty stuff happen in last year of school). I have a few questions that ive managed to ponder up and havnt been able to find an answer too (my case manager doesnt seem to really have a large amount of info). These questions are:

a) What is the difference between SSO and GSO schemes later in your career? More specifically does the SSO option hold you back later on?

b) What is the army looking for in the applicants? I heard sports is good ( I play squash but had to give up afl when i moved over here ) and previous flying experiance which I have none of as have never had the money.

c) I never took 7th form English (equivalent to year 12 English in Australia) as I really dont enjoy it. My case manager said that this will be a significant disadvantage for me even though throughout my degree I have had to write technical reports and deliver presentations, is this true? Or could I get a waiver of some sort? Should I consider taking a tafe course to get it?

d) I know this may sound basic but how often do military pilots get to fly? I read a while ago that one of the reasons the tragic accident that killed a number of SASR soldiers out of Townsville in 1996 was because the pilots had not had enough flight time (correct me if im wrong I just seem to remember reading it somewhere).

e) What do the pilots do when not flying/planning missions? i.e. do they have any other responsibilities?

As a backup, incase I dont get into Army Aviation I was planning on applying for GSO officer training and hopefully progress to 4RAR in which case I was wondering do they take officers straight out of Duntroon? I personally dont think they would without some sort of experiance which makes me wonder if they prefer officers from an infantry background or could anyone apply?

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Gremlin29]

I'm a US Army pilot so although I can't comment directly on the Australian Army selection process, some aspects of officer selection and military aviation are nearly universal in the western world.

In the selection process the "I heard sports are good" comment is true, but it's not the sport part that makes sports an attribute for applicants, it's the teamwork aspect. There are other activities that carry equal or more weight for example in the US, a person that has achieved Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts has an edge over an otherwise equal candidate who may have played a team sport in high school. It's a bigger achievement to make Eagle Scout than to be on a school sports team. In any event they are looking for folks that are self directed and have a naturally tendency to achieve.

If your working on an engineering degree, your english skills will be sufficient. Generally, science degrees are more desirable than Arts degrees and the tests that you will take will be geared towards the sciences and not the arts.

Most military pilots fly a minimum of just over 200 hours annually. If your sent to combat you will fly double to triple that. For every hour of flight time you have at least 2 on the ground planning and debriefing, but your mileage may very depending on the complexity of the mission etc. NVG missions take longer to plan, preflight etc. Do you come in the morning and go flying all day 5 days a week? All the pilots wished that were true but sad truth is no, you don't. You will fly several times a week at best. In the US it's not unusual to fly more during the 4th quarter of the fiscal year, we've to spend that money allocated for fuel etc so as not to give it back the next year and that's a universal thing in our military.

As for what you do when your not flying, it's called additional duties here in the US. You may be the maintenance officer, or you may be safety officer for example. There are alot of jobs that need to be done by officers in an aviation unit and everyone wears several hats. You will be doing more of this, than actually flying. Of course fresh from flight school you will be qualified to sit in the copilots seat, tune the radio when asked and otherwise keep quiet and learn. Your additional duties will not be the better ones, trust me rank has it's priveleges in more ways that one.

Good luck on your quest.

 

[xjtomjx]

Thanks Gremlin for the great info, I am just preparing my CV at the moment to send away although I fear I will not actually be applying this year as I have just found out I will need an operation in November-nothing serious though. I hadnt included my time with the sea scouts and army cadets when I was living in Australia which would have been a big mistake by the sounds of things!

Thanks for the info on filght hours and other duties too its good to know exactly what im getting myself into besides whats on the brochure.

I brought a couple of books on the flight testing for military pilots to get a feel of what kind of questions I will be looking at and I think alot of things I've done with my degree will help, although I still have quiet a bit of learning and revising to do (most questions on aircraft specifics like about translational lift etc I fire off to Dad as hes a civilian helicopter pilot in Australia). Dad also said the same thing about keeping quiet and learning, rest assured if I am good enough to get in it will be head down a*ss up, that is alot of listening and alot of studying.

 

[Gremlin29]

If your dad is flying helicopters he can teach you everything you'll need to know to pass a flight school selection test. If you haven't yet and or have the opportunity to sit in a helicopter with him and do some "hangar flying" for a few hours, together with some study you will ace that piece of the test.

 

[xjtomjx]

Im over in New Zealand at the moment so havnt had the opportunity to do some "hanger flying" although have been flying with him on numerious occasions (all be it being a passenger) but im in the process of getting his old books from when he was studying for his commmercial back in the day. I would imagine most of the material he covered in his books is still relevent. Im planning on going over there next year to make the application process easier and will pester him for some hanger time in a chopper. He also had some useful yarns that hes only just started to tell me now that im bit older such as "trimming the hedges" as he calls it to land in some jungle areas in Papua New Guinea....:shudder

 

[murdo]

Hey mate,

Assuming you get past the initial interviews and assessment day (which you should if you know your stuff), you'll get put on the short-list for Flight Screening. All pilot applicants (once you've passed the assessment day) get put on that list, but only about 300-400 people a year end up going. Basically, nail the aptitude testing and interviews and you'll be higher on the list. To put that figure in perspective, the ADF gets at least 6,000-10,000 pilot applicants a year.

Having flying experience is useful, but not needed - flight screening is essentially two weeks in which you do a few mass briefs, about 10 hours of actual flying (and some pretty cool stuff), and finish with the Officer Selection Board. Most importantly, it doesnt assess your ability to fly - instead your ability to learn how to fly - you'll be shown something, do it with assistance, and then have to do it again by yourself in that lesson and in later flights. Navy, Army and Air Force applicants all fly the same aircraft - a CT-4B trainer, not a helicopter (even once you're in you dont get to fly choppers until after BFTS). Of the 300-400 people that FSP get each year, around 200-250ish get recommended, so odds are good once you're there.

Oh, and in some cases having flying experience can work against you. The instructors are pretty picky about you doing it 'their' way, and learning another way creates some hard habits to shake. That and anyone with a lot of experience does an advanced course which has some harder things thrown in.

Really - call DFR. Most of the time they can give you most of this information or put you in touch with people in the know.

Hope that helps!

As for progressing straight to 4RAR - out of RMC you'd put in preference for Corps allocation, (usually) end up getting what you ask for, and from there end up at whatever Battalion and Regiment. 4RAR got renamed (not sure off the top of my head what it is now) but getting in's the same - do the Commando application.

Source - gone through the process myself.

Cheers

 

[xjtomjx]

Cheers for that mate heaps of help!

I heard that alot of people apply for pilot but didnt realise it was so many! Pretty daunting stuff but in saying that nothing in life worth having comes without hard work and a touch of stubborn determination!

I called DFR a few times but its really proving to be a hassle being New Zealand and trying to sort it out so im waiting until the start of next year to go over there. I tried asking the case manager the questions that I had and she seemed to be reciting what a read off the DFR website and didnt have much info at all and wasnt to keen to put me in touch with anyone who did. The main problem im having is getting my NZ high school grades transfered into equivalent Oz grades and seem to be getting bounced between various education departments hence I figure it will be easier to go over and pester them in person lol. Its also a bit of a pain trying to sort out a YOU session from over here as I have to balance a few things (time off uni, money to get over there, etc) with the session times that they have. I tried to get it sorted but if I booked a flight over there 2-3 months in advance they cant guarantee I will get a session in the limited time frame and in locations where I will be when im over there hence another reason to get the ball rolling once I move over there.

Thats good to know about the commando side of things aswell as I would be pretty keen on progressing to there if the pilot option fell through. Do you know much about the SSO and GSO schemes? Besides SSO being shorter route to pilot is there a difference? Would it impact my career later on if I decided to take the SSO route? I tried asking my case manager and she said theres no difference you still end up in a pilot seat and didnt really elaborate anymore. Are you flying for ADF at the moment? If so what service? Sorry if thats a bit nosey just curious! Also Ive got hold of some of dads old flight books for study when I have a bit of free time is there anything else I could do to help prepare myself?

Cheers for the help really appreciate it!