Artillery rocket question

[ROCK45]

Artillery rocket question

If two opposing armies had MRLS type systems and were in range of each other or targets close by how would each defend against it? Are there air defense systems made to defeat such low flying rockets? I assume since they can be rapid fired it must be more difficult to shoot down then a Scud type rocket. What do current army’s use to combat such threats and are there plans to do so? I’ll post a article that made think of this below.

Link
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...ry Rockets Gain Precision, Range and Mobility

 

[kato]

There are no "current" systems.

Future or experimental systems include tactical lasers (e.g. Skyguard) and C-RAM systems using ground-based, upgraded variants of either Phalanx or Skyshield.

The US, Germany and Israel are pretty much at the forefront of this, with Phalanx C-RAM deployed experimentally in Iraq (2 units) and Skyshield C-RAM ordered in LRIP for the German Army for operational deployment in Afghanistan (2 batteries with probably 8 units total).
Skyguard has been offered for deployment in Israel last year, but is prohibitively expensive (especially when compared to conventional C-RAM systems).

Example with CGI of Skyshield C-RAM: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blog...79a7Post:761de300-2428-4640-9fa6-4ff3aba9c04e

 

[ROCK45]

Skyshield types

Thanks kato that interesting I hope something gets developed quickly. I assume in battle that enemy MRLS's would be classified high value targets and taken out using air or other means ASAP. I'm interest in knowing which countries have these weapons and which countries produce them? Can you imagine if smaller countries fighting each other like Chad and Sudan for example bought MRLSs and started launching these things back and forth at each other? Dug in infantry would take heavy loses never mind civilian villages or cities.

 

[eckherl]

Thanks kato that interesting I hope something gets developed quickly. I assume in battle that enemy MRLS's would be classified high value targets and taken out using air or other means ASAP. I'm interest in knowing which countries have these weapons and which countries produce them? Can you imagine if smaller countries fighting each other like Chad and Sudan for example bought MRLSs and started launching these things back and forth at each other? Dug in infantry would take heavy loses never mind civilian villages or cities.

Practically every sizeable army has MRLS systems in place, they have been around since WW-2. The M270 has been very sucessful in purchases world wide, and the BM-21 Russian system is known as the poor man`s system, they are cheap but reliable and effective if they have the ability to launch.

 

[Chrom]

Thanks kato that interesting I hope something gets developed quickly. I assume in battle that enemy MRLS's would be classified high value targets and taken out using air or other means ASAP. I'm interest in knowing which countries have these weapons and which countries produce them? Can you imagine if smaller countries fighting each other like Chad and Sudan for example bought MRLSs and started launching these things back and forth at each other? Dug in infantry would take heavy loses never mind civilian villages or cities.

A lot of countries can produce such weapon - even less developed ones like Iran, Syria or NK.


As for smaller countries... we can imagine it, but small countries usually have very limited resources and face similar limited enemy. In that case common artillery offer much more bang for the buck and far easer to use effectively - both training and equipment. But, as i said, if any country is rich and developed enough - it can certainly user MLRS.

Note, proper MLRS using is totally different concept from what is employed by some "rogue" users like Hezbollah.

 

[winnyfield]

Most self propelled artillery systems are expected to be able to withstand some exploding shells (though not a direct hit). Mobility is also a protective measure.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[ROCK45]

Rockets

I guess having current target data information, trained crews, a safe location to launch from, and a place to fire and scoot to is a must. Can I assume a direct hit is needed against main battle tanks, but most of other light skin mechanized forces can be destroyed by such weapons ?

I'm going to look into this more and I had no idea Brazil made weapons like this. I knew they made some EE-9 or EE-11 APC's and made a bunch of sales to the Middle East region but didn't know MRLS.

Thanks everybody

 

[Chrom]

I guess having current target data information, trained crews, a safe location to launch from, and a place to fire and scoot to is a must. Can I assume a direct hit is needed against main battle tanks, but most of other light skin mechanized forces can be destroyed by such weapons ?

Yes, generally direct hit is needed. However, most advanced MLRS examples are armed with self-guided anti-tank cluster warheads. So in that sense direct hit is not that hard to achieve...

I'm going to look into this more and I had no idea Brazil made weapons like this. I knew they made some EE-9 or EE-11 APC's and made a bunch of sales to the Middle East region but didn't know MRLS.

Thanks everybody

MLRS greatly differs from each other regarding level of technology used, even if from outside view the look almost the same.

Low-tech MLRS are very easy to produce - much easer than common artillery. High-tech MLRS and warheads are, just like any high-tech weapon, only accessible by few most developed countries.

 

[eckherl]

I guess having current target data information, trained crews, a safe location to launch from, and a place to fire and scoot to is a must. Can I assume a direct hit is needed against main battle tanks, but most of other light skin mechanized forces can be destroyed by such weapons ?

I'm going to look into this more and I had no idea Brazil made weapons like this. I knew they made some EE-9 or EE-11 APC's and made a bunch of sales to the Middle East region but didn't know MRLS.

Thanks everybody

You can cause a mobility kill on a MBT if even a HE equipped rocket lands close enough, they also could cause havoc on sighting systems, main guns/exposed weapons stations and communication antenna`s, a crew fighting in a degraded mode is at a disadvantage, so the justification is there to fire a few barrages at them.

Yes - Brazil does use a wheeled version of a MRLS weapons launcher, I know that you already have contacts or know where to look for it so I will not bother to post a photo.

 

[ROCK45]

14 countries fielded or ordered MLRS

I just found a good site about MLRS where I'll be spending a little time at and I'm sure I'll find others. The copyright on the bottom of the page shows 2007 so this might be a little dated but still useful.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mlrs/

Quote
he combat-proven Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) is a rocket artillery system manufactured by Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control. The system is operational in the US Army, and fourteen countries have fielded or ordered MLRS: Bahrain, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Israel, Italy, Japan, South Korea, The Netherlands, Norway, Turkey and United Kingdom. The system has also been built in Europe by an international consortium of companies from France, Germany, Italy and the UK.

 

[eckherl]

I just found a good site about MLRS where I'll be spending a little time at and I'm sure I'll find others. The copyright on the bottom of the page shows 2007 so this might be a little dated but still useful.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mlrs/

Egypt is also another user of this system. I had a barrage of rockets fired over my tank platoon on one occasion, they looked like flying telephone poles.:shudder

 

[Waylander]

They are defenitely more scary than conventional artillery.

Once a battery of MARS (MLRS) started firing at the range next to us without us knowing that they where there. We nearly shit our pants when the rockets screamed away.

BTW, how good is the shoot and scoot capability of modern MLRS?
I really have no idea about it not even about our own MARS.

 

[Chrom]

They are defenitely more scary than conventional artillery.

Once a battery of MARS (MLRS) started firing at the range next to us without us knowing that they where there. We nearly shit our pants when the rockets screamed away.

BTW, how good is the shoot and scoot capability of modern MLRS?
I really have no idea about it not even about our own MARS.

Scoot capability??? They dont have any. As far as shoot at already known target - it is similar to modern artillery. Just enter coordinates which you received per network and press the button (well, it is easy said then done, but you get the point).

 

[kato]

Well, the German Army claims MARS can "do" Shoot & Scoot.

There aren't really any complications in that too - the crew is onboard, there are no earth spikes or similar to be raised, basically it's just a matter of pulling the launch array back into march position and getting to move away at maximum speed.

 

[Waylander]

I know that they cannot let out a "burst" as fast as a modern SPHs but nevertheless they are a mobile artillery system so there should be a known timeframe during which they can complete a fire mission including getting out of the firing position.

That it is completely inferior to a modern SPH is obvious nevertheless I am interested in the general timeframe during which counterfire could be effective.

 

[Chrom]

I know that they cannot let out a "burst" as fast as a modern SPHs but nevertheless they are a mobile artillery system so there should be a known timeframe during which they can complete a fire mission including getting out of the firing position.

That it is completely inferior to a modern SPH is obvious nevertheless I am interested in the general timeframe during which counterfire could be effective.

I think for most modern MLRS it is matter of several minutes to be prepared to fire. As much is i know, most of them can start moving in less than minute after they finished salvo.

 

[kato]

I think for most modern MLRS it is matter of several minutes to be prepared to fire.

Two minutes from receiving target coordinates to first round fired for MARS. 55 seconds for the full salvo.

 

[Chrom]

Two minutes from receiving target coordinates to first round fired for MARS. 55 seconds for the full salvo.

Is this from the move or from already prepared position?

 

[kato]

Actually from waiting position - with the battery moving into separate pre-arranged firing positions after receiving coordinates from ARES.

The launchers are GPS-equipped, so i guess a similar out-of-move positioning would still be possible without a preparation team selecting firing positions. On-the-move fire support in mobile operations is also "possible" according to the Bw.