Any new Seasprite helicopter developments?

[Todjaeger]

I was out driving today and saw on the opposite side of the highway, what appeared to be a packed and wrapped Seasprite airframe sans rotors, etc strapped to a flatbed truck. Given where I spotted it, it is quite possible that the airframe was headed to Kaman's facility in Bloomfield. Checking in the news for any info, I'm not seeing anything new regarding the Seasprites. What I was wondering is if there is something I've missed. Have there been any new or relatively recent orders for more Seasprites, or to have any refurbished? Or perhaps even additional testing to be completed on them? Just wondering what other members might think or know of.

-Cheers

 

[Aussie Digger]

I was out driving today and saw on the opposite side of the highway, what appeared to be a packed and wrapped Seasprite airframe sans rotors, etc strapped to a flatbed truck. Given where I spotted it, it is quite possible that the airframe was headed to Kaman's facility in Bloomfield. Checking in the news for any info, I'm not seeing anything new regarding the Seasprites. What I was wondering is if there is something I've missed. Have there been any new or relatively recent orders for more Seasprites, or to have any refurbished? Or perhaps even additional testing to be completed on them? Just wondering what other members might think or know of.

-Cheers

RAN's 11th Seasprite airframe has remained at Kaman's facility in the US for "on-going" testing and development. I'm sure it's still there, but I don't think it would have been disassembled for transport anywhere. Unless this is part of flight control software remediation program?

Magoo or AGRA might have a better idea?

 

[AGRA]

I’m not sure why the helo was bundled up? Kaman are very close to having the SH-2GA ready to the contracted full combat worthy spec. They only have <6 or so issues to finish off. So maybe the no. 11 is being delivered? Or it could be another country’s Seasprite.

Of course the Director General Airworthiness is unwilling to certify the aircraft in the post Sea King crash environment. The Seapsrites are perfectly able to fly with the eight already delivered to the RAN in the training helicopter configuration (-sensor and weapons integration, which is what Kaman are finishing off).

Kaman and the Government are in negotiations to agree to a new program to give the Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS) some more rigour in being able to determine if there are faults in the system, in particular the air data computers. This was the flaw that lead to the grounding last year. An airspeed data computer (supplied by a subcontractor and immediately replaced) went a bit wonky and added a lot of speed to the data input leading the AFCS to compensate and putting the helicopter in an unsafe position.

Of course the aircraft is designed not to fly automatically but to have a pilot in the loop who immediately noticed the error, turned off the AFCS and flew the aircraft by hand. The Seasprite is perfectly safe to fly without AFCS and hydraulics handling better than a Cessna at 200 feet…

However post Sea King no one in the Navy leadership is willing to make the call that original specification or contract or not the Seasprite should be certified. This is why Kaman is in such a strong legal position and the Minister’s plan to scrap the project was turned on its head. Now it’s just back to the death by a thousand cuts and Swiftboating the Seasprite. Which seems to be a major hobby of the Seahawk community and any other shark out there…

A real shame considering how badly the Navy needs those 11 helicopters.

 

[mug]

Had a brief search, bit still not sure this is the most appropriate thread. From SMH:

$1b chopper project scrapped

March 5, 2008 - 12:18PM

The federal government will cancel the troubled $1 billion Seasprite helicopter project, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon announced today.

Mr Fitzgibbon said the decision was not taken easily but the new Labor government was left with little option.

The government launched a review of the project late last year, shortly after winning the November 24 election.

"After careful consideration of all the issues involved, the government has decided that it intends to cancel the project," Mr Fitzgibbon said in a statement.

"Discussions will be commenced immediately with the contractor in relation to the legal and financial arrangements to facilitate this."

AAP

 

[Jezza]

great news
bring on more mrh-90s for naval

didnt the gov request costs for 27 new seahawks or 27 new mrh-90s

 

[Magoo]

didnt the gov request costs for 27 new seahawks or 27 new mrh-90s

Yes, but its unlikely they'll move on anything until the white paper is released. That way, they'll have a better idea of whether FFG-UP will survive and whether AWD will remain on track, and thus how many airframes they'll need.

Cheers

 

[Tasman]

Seasprite Helicopter Agreement

A deal has been reached between the Australian Government and Kaman.

20 Mar 2008 MIN20/08
SEASPRITE HELICOPTER AGREEMENT



On 5 March 2008 the Government announced its intention to cancel the Seasprite helicopter project.



A satisfactory conclusion to the Seasprite project has now been agreed with the contractor, Kaman, to cancel the project on mutually agreed terms. An agreement has today been signed between the Australian Government and the contractor setting out the agreed terms. The agreement has some confidential aspects, however I can say that, subject to US Government approval, the project deliverables including the aircraft, training equipment and spare parts would be returned to Kaman for sale on the open market. The Australian Government and Kaman would share in the profits of subsequent sales.



Under the agreement, the Australian Government will receive at least 50 per cent of the proceeds from any sale of the helicopters by Kaman with a guaranteed financial return from Kaman of $39.5 million. In addition a further $30 million worth of spares will be retained for use on the Seahawk and Black Hawk helicopter fleets.



Further, the Australian Government has saved $150 million that would otherwise have been spent on the Seasprite project that will now be available for use on other capability.



Minister for Defence Joel Fitzgibbon said that he was pleased that the early resolution that had been achieved by the Australian negotiating team removes the uncertainty surrounding the Seasprite project.



This is considered the best outcome for the Government as well as the personnel affected by the decision. The Government is assisting Kaman with the transition of their personnel in a sector that is short of qualified and experienced people.



Mr Fitzgibbon said, “The Government has taken the tough decision and acted decisively to achieve the necessary outcome without a protracted legal dispute, to ensure the nation’s security.



“A legal and financial framework to facilitate the agreement is in place that provides a reasonable return for the Australian taxpayer. We are determined to ensure that the Defence Force receives the capability it needs. We have learned some valuable lessons from this project that we can apply to better ensure the success of future projects, and make sure that taxpayers receive value for their money,” Mr Fitzgibbon said.

http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/Fitzgibbontpl.cfm?CurrentId=7519

On face value this looks to be a better outcome than a lengthy legal wrangle.

Tas

 

[barra]

A deal has been reached between the Australian Government and Kaman.



http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/Fitzgibbontpl.cfm?CurrentId=7519

On face value this looks to be a better outcome than a lengthy legal wrangle.

Tas

Sorry Tas but I don't agree here, the Australian taxpayer has forked out about Aus $1 Billion for a guaranteed return of Aus $39.5 million????? Man, that is not good economics in anyones language. Kaman has made a killing out of this project and failed to deliver, and now they keep half the profits of any sale!!

Any way you look at it it is not a good outcome and two weeks to agree to terms seems a bit hasty to me. Heads should have rolled over this but both sides of politics are to blame so it will be swept under the carpet.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Sorry Tas but I don't agree here, the Australian taxpayer has forked out about Aus $1 Billion for a guaranteed return of Aus $39.5 million????? Man, that is not good economics in anyones language. Kaman has made a killing out of this project and failed to deliver, and now they keep half the profits of any sale!!

Any way you look at it it is not a good outcome and two weeks to agree to terms seems a bit hasty to me. Heads should have rolled over this but both sides of politics are to blame so it will be swept under the carpet.

Agreed. Kev wants nothing to do with it considering it was his labour pals who isntituted the program, and Nelson sure as hell isnt going to kick up a stink considering he sat on it for ~5 years (?). What a colosal waste of money! Imagine the kit we could have bought for $1bn? We could have been on our way to a true IFV capability or CEA FAR 3D radars for the ANZAC's. Or imagine $1bn worth of recruiting or retention incentives? Heads should roll, but they wont. Lets just hope we get some new helo's on line quick smart.

 

[Tasman]

Sorry Tas but I don't agree here, the Australian taxpayer has forked out about Aus $1 Billion for a guaranteed return of Aus $39.5 million????? Man, that is not good economics in anyones language. Kaman has made a killing out of this project and failed to deliver, and now they keep half the profits of any sale!!

Any way you look at it it is not a good outcome and two weeks to agree to terms seems a bit hasty to me. Heads should have rolled over this but both sides of politics are to blame so it will be swept under the carpet.

I agree that the whole fiasco has been a colossal waste of money. The problem is that a protracted legal battle would have been unlikely to achieve any better because changes in requirements by Australia are largely to blame for the failure to get the helicopters certified as airworthy and in service. There is a school of thought that Australia might have come out of a court battle with egg on its face and I expect the government's legal advisors have come to this conclusion. This is also, I believe, the main reason that the previous cabinet rejected the former Defmin's recommendation to cancel the project last year. The $1 billion is gone and the faster we move on and recover what salvage we can (little though that is), the better, IMO.

Tas

 

[Tasman]

Lets just hope we get some new helo's on line quick smart.

Agreed Ozzy. This will be one of the big challenges for the new Chief of Navy. IMO, the navy has suffered badly in recent years from projects which have turned out to be flawed. As well as the Seasprite scandal, the FFGUP stuff up (rather than acquiring the ex USN Kidds), and huge losses in experienced and skilled personnel stand out as major disappointments. Strong leadership is now needed to start turning things around.

Tas

 

[Todjaeger]

I agree that the whole fiasco has been a colossal waste of money. The problem is that a protracted legal battle would have been be unlikely to achieve any better because changes in requirements by Australia are largely to blame for the failure to get the helicopters certified as airworthy and in service. There is a school of thought that Australia might have come out of a court battle with egg on its face and I expect the government's legal advisors have come to this conclusion. This is also, I believe, the main reason that the previous cabinet rejected the former Defmin's recommendation to cancel the project last year. The $1 billion is gone and the faster we move on and recover what salvage we can (little though that is), the better, IMO.

Tas

Completely agree Tas. I expect that the final agreement was the best that could be reasonably expected of a bad situation. More perhaps could have been achieved (in terms of return following cancellation) but how much more time, money, effort and risk would there have been? Particularly since at least some of the issues are a result of Australian reqs and not the contractor. Hopefully this will serve as an object lesson of poor project management.

-Cheers