All this talk on a West African Coast Guard...

[contedicavour]

I've read a lot about West African countries (basically Nigeria and Ghana) setting up a joint coast guard to patrol against oil robbers, local revolutionaries (such as the ones kidnapping Western oil workers) and illegal trade (in people, weaponry, etc).

Concretely I've only seen the US hand over to Nigeria a few obsolete patrol cutters. Nigeria hasn't done anything to revamp its small and disintegrating navy. So is this all just BS ???

cheers

 

[Big-E]

They could take a presidential yacht and install a 40mm bofors on it.

 

[contedicavour]

They could take a presidential yacht and install a 40mm bofors on it.

You know what ? Ghana's flagship should have been a British '60s frigate bought specifically as a "presidential transport ship". After an umpteenth military coup the ship was sold to Malaysia, still the idea is there

cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

The whole area is filled with tottering democracies, with too many civil wars, warlords, and bloodshed. Outside the North African nations and South Africa, none of these nations are ready for sophisticated warships.

For example, the poor state of Nigeria's navy. If any nation could afford these ships, its Nigeria with her oil wealth. But there are many other avenues to spend that wealth, the reason why its navy is in such poor shape. Its really a shame.

Outside of small patrol ships and craft, at this time these nations shouldn't bother with any ocean going vessels. While its a great idea to fight piracy, at this time one wonders whether any new OPVs acquired by these nations wouldn't end up being the ships of pirates.

 

[Jtimes2]

I've read a lot about West African countries (basically Nigeria and Ghana) setting up a joint coast guard to patrol against oil robbers, local revolutionaries (such as the ones kidnapping Western oil workers) and illegal trade (in people, weaponry, etc).

Concretely I've only seen the US hand over to Nigeria a few obsolete patrol cutters. Nigeria hasn't done anything to revamp its small and disintegrating navy. So is this all just BS ???

cheers

They've got a way to go but the Nigerians are making strides. Aradu is fully operational again with a new air defense radar; and was in immaculate condition at the Trafalgar review. The ship made the long trip from Africa to Britain & back unassisted (which doesn't sound like much, but is actually a logistical/planning/maintenance accomplishment for 3rd world navies) and this year participated in live-fire gunnery EX'es with the USN. (no firing of Otomats so I don't know if their SSMs are operational anymore).

Their old Lynxes have been replaced by brand-new Augusta A-109E Powers (MH-68A Stingray in USCG service) equipped with FLIR and naval radar. Unlike the Lynx, no ASW but let's face it, there's not much chance of Liberia, Gambia, etc acquiring a sub fleet anytime soon. In December 2005, they got a squadron of Jian J-7 Fishbeds in an oil-for-guns deal with China to provide coastal air cover.

The USCG just donated two Balsam class bouy tenders that the Nigerians are converting into OPV's. Not much for combat but they are dirt-cheap to operate, which will free up funds for other modernizations/purchases. They made the 47-day trip unassisted, again showing that the Nigerians are getting their act together with upkeep & repair skills.

As for the rest of the region, I don't know........the USN donated some surplus harbour patrol boats to Cameroon around Christmas last year, and the Togolese seem to be doing a good job of keeping their microscopic navy up to snuff and cooperating. Mauratania just got some coastal patrol helicopters from China. But for the time being Nigeria has about the best thing going in that region.

In addition to piracy, terrorism, threats to oil; it should be mentioned that poaching is a huge problem there. Guinea-Bissau has basically devolved into anarchy. There's a huge fleet of unflagged, unlicensed, unregulated trawlers (mostly ex-Soviet) crewed by locals who clean the ocean out and then resell for cash to larger Chinese fishing ships docked in G-B; who then pile it on to their legal take.

 

[contedicavour]

They've got a way to go but the Nigerians are making strides. Aradu is fully operational again with a new air defense radar; and was in immaculate condition at the Trafalgar review. The ship made the long trip from Africa to Britain & back unassisted (which doesn't sound like much, but is actually a logistical/planning/maintenance accomplishment for 3rd world navies) and this year participated in live-fire gunnery EX'es with the USN. (no firing of Otomats so I don't know if their SSMs are operational anymore).

Their old Lynxes have been replaced by brand-new Augusta A-109E Powers (MH-68A Stingray in USCG service) equipped with FLIR and naval radar. Unlike the Lynx, no ASW but let's face it, there's not much chance of Liberia, Gambia, etc acquiring a sub fleet anytime soon. In December 2005, they got a squadron of Jian J-7 Fishbeds in an oil-for-guns deal with China to provide coastal air cover.

The USCG just donated two Balsam class bouy tenders that the Nigerians are converting into OPV's. Not much for combat but they are dirt-cheap to operate, which will free up funds for other modernizations/purchases. They made the 47-day trip unassisted, again showing that the Nigerians are getting their act together with upkeep & repair skills.

As for the rest of the region, I don't know........the USN donated some surplus harbour patrol boats to Cameroon around Christmas last year, and the Togolese seem to be doing a good job of keeping their microscopic navy up to snuff and cooperating. Mauratania just got some coastal patrol helicopters from China. But for the time being Nigeria has about the best thing going in that region.

In addition to piracy, terrorism, threats to oil; it should be mentioned that poaching is a huge problem there. Guinea-Bissau has basically devolved into anarchy. There's a huge fleet of unflagged, unlicensed, unregulated trawlers (mostly ex-Soviet) crewed by locals who clean the ocean out and then resell for cash to larger Chinese fishing ships docked in G-B; who then pile it on to their legal take.

Great thanks Jtimes ! I was looking for this sort of detailed information and I didn't know about the Fishbed deal or that the A109E sale had been completed. I am amazed that the Aradu could be brought back in service after 2 groundings and other minor incidents. The Agusta helos are also good patrol assets. What makes me cautious however is that given the area that needs to be patrolled, a couple of very old ex USCG patrol boats and a frigate are really not enough. Most Lurssen and Combattante FAC(M)s are not sailing anymore and same goes for the 2 small '60s vintage corvettes.

The US should send over some more cutters as the Coast Guard is replacing its OPVs... and Nigeria should buy some new construction OPVs such as the new British ones, or the Italian "Comandanti" or the Spanish design for Venezuela. With all the oil money they've got 80-million USD OPVs are clearly affordable...

cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

What's needed is something like the Australian Pacific patrol boat program for these western African states. Simple boats, not heavily armed, useful for fishery protection, patrol, and customs. The program should include training and support. Frankly, there is no need for either guided missile FAC, or frigates in this area. A few small OPVs maybe, but it appears only Nigeria could afford them, and I wonder about Nigeria.

While we are discussing patrol boats for these nations, many of the missionaries that are involved with many of these nations are concerned about good, healthy, water sources. A simple water well in many communities is a better investment of our limited foreign aid than purchasing patrol boats.

 

[contedicavour]

What's needed is something like the Australian Pacific patrol boat program for these western African states. Simple boats, not heavily armed, useful for fishery protection, patrol, and customs. The program should include training and support. Frankly, there is no need for either guided missile FAC, or frigates in this area. A few small OPVs maybe, but it appears only Nigeria could afford them, and I wonder about Nigeria.

While we are discussing patrol boats for these nations, many of the missionaries that are involved with many of these nations are concerned about good, healthy, water sources. A simple water well in many communities is a better investment of our limited foreign aid than purchasing patrol boats.

Except that those countries' resources (basically oil and fish) are being robbed also because there is no navy around... so it is a very good return on investment to send there patrol boats

 

[contedicavour]

Oh and btw given the size of the area to be patrolled, I believe simple patrol ships wouldn't have adequate autonomy. That's why I think OPVs with helo pads are the best option. You can buy 4 90-metre 1800 ton OPVs with 76mm gun and hangar for helicopter plus satellite communications for the price of 1 frigate... Definitively worth the price.
Besides Nigeria, the other countries could join forces to order a couple (Ghana, Togo, Ivory Coast, Senegal...)

cheers

 

[isthvan]

Oh and btw given the size of the area to be patrolled, I believe simple patrol ships wouldn't have adequate autonomy. That's why I think OPVs with helo pads are the best option. You can buy 4 90-metre 1800 ton OPVs with 76mm gun and hangar for helicopter plus satellite communications for the price of 1 frigate... Definitively worth the price.
Besides Nigeria, the other countries could join forces to order a couple (Ghana, Togo, Ivory Coast, Senegal...)

cheers

Only problem that I see here is that none of this countries whit exception of Nigeria (maybe) cant afford purchase of new ships… Only way they can get ships is donation of ex. USCG cutters or some older European patrol ships…
New ships are out of there liege (ok maybe Nigeria could buy ships in China, they don’t had to have weary sophisticated equipment and they could use 30-40mm maingun; besides they could probably get two for price of one western designed ship).

 

[Jtimes2]

Great thanks Jtimes ! I was looking for this sort of detailed information and I didn't know about the Fishbed deal or that the A109E sale had been completed. I am amazed that the Aradu could be brought back in service after 2 groundings and other minor incidents. The Agusta helos are also good patrol assets. What makes me cautious however is that given the area that needs to be patrolled, a couple of very old ex USCG patrol boats and a frigate are really not enough. Most Lurssen and Combattante FAC(M)s are not sailing anymore and same goes for the 2 small '60s vintage corvettes.

The US should send over some more cutters as the Coast Guard is replacing its OPVs... and Nigeria should buy some new construction OPVs such as the new British ones, or the Italian "Comandanti" or the Spanish design for Venezuela. With all the oil money they've got 80-million USD OPVs are clearly affordable...

cheers

I agree that they need a few OPV's but they will probably get them from China not Europe. A lot of the African nations are leery about buying European due to one European gov't selling; the next embargoing, the next selling some spare parts but embargoing others, etc.

You're right about the oil, with the price of crude right now there's no better time for them to buy.

 

[Big-E]

The USCG just donated two Balsam class bouy tenders that the Nigerians are converting into OPV's. Not much for combat but they are dirt-cheap to operate, which will free up funds for other modernizations/purchases. They made the 47-day trip unassisted, again showing that the Nigerians are getting their act together with upkeep & repair skills.

I'm not sure they are cheap to maintain and operate, they were laid down in the begining of WWII. Converting to OPVs of Balsam/ 180 class ships is retarded. Their max speed is 13kts. I can sail faster than this in a Sunfish. Cargo ships can outrun this lumbering rust bucket much less say anything about pirates.:crazy

 

[contedicavour]

Agree with Big E that 13-knots 60-year-old cutters are not up to the task.
If only the USCG had faster and more recent cutters to hand over, but I've read a lot about the fact that replacements for the USCG are arriving all too slowly.

I also agree that Chinese OPVs (such as those for Thailand) are much cheaper alternatives to European ones.

The one I don't understand is : how come Nigeria and the neighbors are so short of money with oil at 70$ a barrel, while in the early '80s (with a much cheaper oil) they managed to buy 1 Meko 360 missile frigate, 6 FAC(M)s from Germany and France, 2 MCMs from Italy, 2 LSTs from Germany - all this Nigeria - then 2 FAC(G)s from Germany for Ghana, same from France for Senegal, a small FAC(M) with MM40 Exocets for Cameroon...


cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

A lot of African nations acquired guided missile FACs from the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Nigeria made the mistake of purchasing a frigate, when they should have bought an OPV. In a few years most of the ships Nigeria procured were rusting away inoperable. The ships and boats that did survive for a long time where the simple cheap ones. Its all spilt milk now, lesson learned. Nigeria had the cash to buy, but didn't have the wherewithal to maintain the complicated and sophisticated ships.

The US Coast Guard buoy tenders are simple in design, and since they are so old, very cheap. They will last as long as the spare parts last, probably longer than the complicated machinery and weapon systems of the past. However ex-US Coast Guard equipment isn't the preferred path. I would much rather see Nigeria acquire new simply designed OPVs, nothing more complicated than an oil field supply vessel.

I think Nigeria can operate an OPV navy. However, I don't think any of the other nations have the funds yet. If these other African nations, all of them, east and west coast, got together as the Pacific Forum island nations did, a class of OPVs and/or IPVs could be acquired and supported. I suggest the EU provide the funds for the equipment and training, the African nations providing the operational costs and crews. The Australians have done very well with their Pacific class patrol boat program, surely the EU can do as well.

The problem is that most of the EU nations want to sell ships, not give them. Currently all of the EU nations are willing to sell any of these African nations a patrol boat, all of different classes. Wouldn't it be better if all of these nations had boats of the same class, being able to help one another with spare parts and expertise? It will take an organisation such as the EU itself to provide the needed and necessary aid. The United States has done the same as the Australians with many of the Caribbean island nations, given the ships, training, and support.

It also wouldn't hurt to extend to these nations organized exercises, where their personnel and ships of different nations exercise together in a spirit of good will. The lasting friendships could in the future avoid unnecessary wars.

We know these African nations outside Nigeria can't afford the whole lot. The question remains can the EU? Yes. Will the EU? They should.

 

[contedicavour]

Hmm agree that where there is a market opportunity to sell OPVs, European governments tend to support local industries and sell new boats.

However it has already happened that my government finances boats for Malta for example, provided the ship is built in local shipyards. In the latest case it was a modified Saettia-class big FAC or small corvette, with the addition of a helo pad aft.
The ship is more suitable for the Mediterranean than for the Atlantic Ocean, but the deal could be done in some more bilateral aid programmes.

cheers

 

[swerve]

The one I don't understand is : how come Nigeria and the neighbors are so short of money with oil at 70$ a barrel, while in the early '80s (with a much cheaper oil) they managed to buy 1 Meko 360 missile frigate, 6 FAC(M)s from Germany and France, 2 MCMs from Italy, 2 LSTs from Germany - all this Nigeria - then 2 FAC(G)s from Germany for Ghana, same from France for Senegal, a small FAC(M) with MM40 Exocets for Cameroon...


cheers

Because Nigeria 30 years ago hadn't piled up huge debts. When the oil money started rolling in, with the massive oil price increase of 1974, coinciding with a big increase in Nigerian oil production, vast amounts were spent on all sorts of things (look up the great Nigerian cement fiasco one day - it's astonishing). There were almost no controls on spending, because the inflow of cash was so much greater than ever before that it seemed inexhaustible. And theft was on a staggering scale. Now, it is in the nature of government purchases overseas that they are not made with cash, even if the cash is to hand; lines of credit are used, loans are raised. Prudent governments do this just to smooth payments, so as not to adversely affect budgets in a short period. Imagine this with, in effect, no controls. The oil price fell, & one day, a payment was due & it was found there was no money. But there were still vast sums due to be paid, contracted payments greatly exceeding the oil income. The country was broke, & massively in debt. Much the same with the neighbours: Cameroun's economy crashed in the late 1980s, income per head dropping by almost half, with the non-oil economy following the oil sector down. Congo did even worse, & had a social & political breakdown to add to it. Only Gabon of the Bight of Benin oil producers escaped the worst of the financial meltdown. Equatorial Guinea wasn't in the game then, being so corrupt & misgoverned even the bravest oil companies shunned it.

So now, they can't spend so freely. Foreign suppliers who've been burned once are more wary, & want guarantees of payment. The IMF is looking over their shoulders. Their own financial controls are better. And they still have debt payments to make.

 

[contedicavour]

Wow thanks swerve. It seems you witnessed this experience of mismanagement and meltdown first hand !
So this makes sense, weak likelyhood of any new ship orders unless they are basically 100% financed by the shipyard's country.

cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

In the Caribbean these island nations have a tough time keeping up with the cruise lines, as the cruise lines are expanding with more and larger ships. You'll hear many American cruisers complaining about having to tender into these ports, and they wonder why these island nations don't build more docks for the cruise ships, after all tourists pour money into these nations. Bermuda has a population of 70,000 and Grand Caymen has a population of 35,000. There is only so much money to spend, and frankly, they would rather spend it on health care or their own highways, than build another or a larger dock for the cruise lines.

While these African states have more population, they are mostly poorer. There is only so much money to spend, and frankly, they would rather spend their funds on their highways, health care and education, nevermind ocean going patrol ships. Most of these African nations don't have the tourism of the Caribbean either.

Outside the north African nations along the Mediterrean, Morroco, South Africa, Nigeria, and possibly Kenya, there are many African nations that can't afford brand new patrol boats for customs, much less fishery protection. At least many Asian and Latin American nations have developed some industry, most of the African nations haven't. Their exports are mostly coffee, cocoa, and the production of their natural resources, such as oil production and mining of minerals.

 

[contedicavour]

In the Caribbean these island nations have a tough time keeping up with the cruise lines, as the cruise lines are expanding with more and larger ships. You'll hear many American cruisers complaining about having to tender into these ports, and they wonder why these island nations don't build more docks for the cruise ships, after all tourists pour money into these nations. Bermuda has a population of 70,000 and Grand Caymen has a population of 35,000. There is only so much money to spend, and frankly, they would rather spend it on health care or their own highways, than build another or a larger dock for the cruise lines.

While these African states have more population, they are mostly poorer. There is only so much money to spend, and frankly, they would rather spend their funds on their highways, health care and education, nevermind ocean going patrol ships. Most of these African nations don't have the tourism of the Caribbean either.

Outside the north African nations along the Mediterrean, Morroco, South Africa, Nigeria, and possibly Kenya, there are many African nations that can't afford brand new patrol boats for customs, much less fishery protection. At least many Asian and Latin American nations have developed some industry, most of the African nations haven't. Their exports are mostly coffee, cocoa, and the production of their natural resources, such as oil production and mining of minerals.

Ok fine, I see your point. Though if you don't secure your natural resources, precisely because you don't have alternative industries, you get robbed.
If pirates start ruling the seas around the harbors from which you export your natural resources... well then guess what, nobody buys them. So back to square one. Any government's role, arguably even before education and health, is basic security for its people and businesses.

 

[Sea Toby]

You'll notice that most of these Horn of Africa nations have some sort of patrol boats and craft, from 6 metres to 70-metres in length, most were given to them as foreign aid. None of their shorelines are large. But you'll notice that the hog podge of patrol boats and craft are of different sizes, classes, and age, but all are suitable for customs and inshore patrolling. A few of thes boats are useful out to the 200-mile EEZ limit.

They are of British, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Danish, and American makes. Its not like they don't have anything, they do, but their boats are mostly small. What concerns me the most is that they are usually ordered in ones and twos, whereas with the Pacific patrol boat program Australia cranked out over 20 patrol boats of the same class. You won't find this economy of scale in Africa.

Its easy as a Westerner to say their defenses should have a priority. But when half the population drinks water from the river they pee in, well, one would think clean water is of a higher priority.

Here is a link to a list of small African navies from another website:
http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/africa/africa.htm