Official Chengdu J-20 Discussion Thread
Re: China J-XX official graph
It looks like another F10 development
as the J-XX pics i've scene on the net seams to much more like the
F22
The chinese are making alot of concepts at the moment
theres even an off shoot of the fc1 that looks like an fc1 fuselage with a delta wing and canards
It looks like another F10 development
as the J-XX pics i've scene on the net seams to much more like the
F22
The chinese are making alot of concepts at the moment
theres even an off shoot of the fc1 that looks like an fc1 fuselage with a delta wing and canards
Re: China J-XX official graph
Depending on what kind of AL-31 variant Russia is willing to offer after this delivery, China may choose to order more or stick with WS-10A which actually has better thrust and T/W ratio than the current AL-31FN.
If you can read Chinese or feel like translating from traditional Chinese to english using babelfish, check this kanwa article http://www.kanwa.com/mrdt/showpl.php?id=207
In the bottom, it says China is dicussing with Salyut for a AL-31FMN variant which will hopefully have 15000 kg thrust. Note, AL-31FM has 13700 kg thrust.
J-10 will be the work horse in plaaf, there is no question about that. Especially since China has stopped building J-11A and stopped purchase su-30mkks.
It has at least one full squadron in service opposite to India. As for engine, it has 154 AL-31FN ordered so far (54 in the first bunch and 100 in July) which is expected to all be delivered before the end of 2006. http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.78/pub_detail.aspBrit said:
Depending on what kind of AL-31 variant Russia is willing to offer after this delivery, China may choose to order more or stick with WS-10A which actually has better thrust and T/W ratio than the current AL-31FN.
If you can read Chinese or feel like translating from traditional Chinese to english using babelfish, check this kanwa article http://www.kanwa.com/mrdt/showpl.php?id=207
In the bottom, it says China is dicussing with Salyut for a AL-31FMN variant which will hopefully have 15000 kg thrust. Note, AL-31FM has 13700 kg thrust.
J-10 will be the work horse in plaaf, there is no question about that. Especially since China has stopped building J-11A and stopped purchase su-30mkks.
Re: China J-XX official graph
Tphuang,
I think I read the Kanwa article in English already (brought a copy of the mag in HK). Kanwa too express the notion that the J-10 may be loosing ground to the J-17 as the future PLAAF workhorse. Kanwa estimate the J-17 to be about 30% cheaper. Also, they speculate, quite reasonably, that the use of the AL-31 engine on the J-10 is tied to purchases of Su-27/30 aircraft, making the idea that China will not buy/produce further Sukhois less than likely(?).
Chinese engines like WS-10 appear some way off.
Tphuang,
I think I read the Kanwa article in English already (brought a copy of the mag in HK). Kanwa too express the notion that the J-10 may be loosing ground to the J-17 as the future PLAAF workhorse. Kanwa estimate the J-17 to be about 30% cheaper. Also, they speculate, quite reasonably, that the use of the AL-31 engine on the J-10 is tied to purchases of Su-27/30 aircraft, making the idea that China will not buy/produce further Sukhois less than likely(?).
Chinese engines like WS-10 appear some way off.
Re: China J-XX official graph
Coming back to topic;
This is not J-XX. J-Xx doesnt have delta wings, doesnt have bottom wind inlet (its suppose to have two side wind inlets under the wings) & certainly no canards.
Here is a possible lay out from sinodefence : http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx_gallery1.asp
& this is the origional rough model if J-XX presented during some show: http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fighter3.jpg
Coming back to topic;
This is not J-XX. J-Xx doesnt have delta wings, doesnt have bottom wind inlet (its suppose to have two side wind inlets under the wings) & certainly no canards.
Here is a possible lay out from sinodefence : http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx_gallery1.asp
& this is the origional rough model if J-XX presented during some show: http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fighter3.jpg
Re: China J-XX official graph
none knows what j-xx looks like. the internet concepts thet have been put out are either mig-1.44 rip-offs, su-47 rip-offs, or f-22 rip-offs.
but back on topic...
the chinese evidently want to put the al-41 on the j-xx, along with some indegedous avionics and weaons suites. the radar is uncetain, either an isreali, russian, or indegedous. it better be good thoguh!!!!
none knows what j-xx looks like. the internet concepts thet have been put out are either mig-1.44 rip-offs, su-47 rip-offs, or f-22 rip-offs.
but back on topic...
the chinese evidently want to put the al-41 on the j-xx, along with some indegedous avionics and weaons suites. the radar is uncetain, either an isreali, russian, or indegedous. it better be good thoguh!!!!
Re: China J-XX official graph
Radar is said to be AESA but the version is unkown. China is said to be developing its own AESA.
Yeah thats what i forgot to mention....realy no one knows what J-XX look like. Even the model shown at the defence exhibition may be changed as the project goes under way. So if any of u ppl find any pic on J-XX (at this moment) they are just mere asumptions & children at play.MIGleader said:
I thought China was testing TVC WS-10 for J-XX.
Radar is said to be AESA but the version is unkown. China is said to be developing its own AESA.
Re: China J-XX official graph
As for J-XX, I remember JDW posting that J-XX is in wind tunnel testing stage in 2003. Now, if we use J-10's develop as a barometer. I'm guessing the first prototype will come out in 2008 and probably fly in 2009 and it will go through pre-production testing starting from 2012 and join service in 2015.
As for engine, China is going to most likely use AL-41 at least in the beginning, like it is using AL-31 on J-10 right now and then some indigenous engine later when it can match AL-41 in performance. I really don't think 2 WS-10A can produce enough thrust for J-XX to compete with the likes of PAK FA and F-22.
yeah, I read that article too, but that article was based on the premise that china might be purchasing 500 RD-93. It looks like JF-17 might not be available for another 3 years. By then, there will be 150 more J-10s (using the pace of 50 per year). I personally think the number 500 is quite alarming, since it means WS-13A will probably never be used on JF-17. Either way, considering China has promised to purchase 250 JF-17 and PAF committed to 150, 600 engines for that really is quite reasonable. Let's not forget JF-17 is suppose to be the plane that China is marketing to poor countries. As for WS-10, it is almost complete. The current estimation is that WS-10A will start production sometimes late this year or next year. There was a problem with it in 2004, but it has apparently being resolved. As for sukhoi, China will definitely buy more sukhoi, but higher quality sukhoi than the garbage it is getting right now.Brit said:
As for J-XX, I remember JDW posting that J-XX is in wind tunnel testing stage in 2003. Now, if we use J-10's develop as a barometer. I'm guessing the first prototype will come out in 2008 and probably fly in 2009 and it will go through pre-production testing starting from 2012 and join service in 2015.
As for engine, China is going to most likely use AL-41 at least in the beginning, like it is using AL-31 on J-10 right now and then some indigenous engine later when it can match AL-41 in performance. I really don't think 2 WS-10A can produce enough thrust for J-XX to compete with the likes of PAK FA and F-22.
Pursuit Curve
New Member
Re: China J-XX official graph
When the day comes that any country puts an aircraft in the air that can rival the F22, than I willl start to believe the rumours and hyperbole surrounding the percieved chinese military secrets, brought to us all by the paranoid and reaching for straws press conferences of Donald "Where is the weapons of mass destruction" Rumsfeld and company.
Oh man, I don't know if you all are old enough to remember the endless artist renditions of the F117 or the Soviet "Secret" projects that the pentagon would publish to get the pucker factor up and get more funding for the military.Red aRRow said:
When the day comes that any country puts an aircraft in the air that can rival the F22, than I willl start to believe the rumours and hyperbole surrounding the percieved chinese military secrets, brought to us all by the paranoid and reaching for straws press conferences of Donald "Where is the weapons of mass destruction" Rumsfeld and company.
Elite-Pilot
Banned Member
Re: China J-XX official graph
Dear Brothers,
I have read that the WS-10A engine was a success...is this correct?can anyone confirm this?
Mod edit: Path: Please avoid using smiles in your post when there is no need for them.
Dear Brothers,
I have read that the WS-10A engine was a success...is this correct?can anyone confirm this?
Mod edit: Path: Please avoid using smiles in your post when there is no need for them.
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: China J-XX official graph
it's posted on an official chinese newspaper that a new engine has finished 4 month of endurance testing. It didnd't mention WS-10A specifically, but clearly it is WS-10A due to the timeframe and the description of the engine. That's considered to be the final test before certificaiton, so production should begin sometime late this year.Elite-Pilot said:
that's not an official pic of the J-XX!
China's upcoming 1st 5th generation stealth fighter will have no canards and the design resembles much more of a F-22 than you actually would think. The thrust nozzles might look more conventionally but it will have no canards. The J-XX is at the start of its development and hard to forsee how it would perform in 2015 or later. But it is estimated that the J-XX would be more advanced than the EF Typhoon but less than the F/A-22 Raptor. It might closely like a mix of the F-35 JSF and the EF Typhoon when Shenyang succeeds to produce the J-XX as China's most advanced fighter jet while keeping it at a "relatively" low price for a 5th gen fighter (maybe between 80-120 mio.US$ per unit) compared to a Raptor's 250 mio.US$!
China's upcoming 1st 5th generation stealth fighter will have no canards and the design resembles much more of a F-22 than you actually would think. The thrust nozzles might look more conventionally but it will have no canards. The J-XX is at the start of its development and hard to forsee how it would perform in 2015 or later. But it is estimated that the J-XX would be more advanced than the EF Typhoon but less than the F/A-22 Raptor. It might closely like a mix of the F-35 JSF and the EF Typhoon when Shenyang succeeds to produce the J-XX as China's most advanced fighter jet while keeping it at a "relatively" low price for a 5th gen fighter (maybe between 80-120 mio.US$ per unit) compared to a Raptor's 250 mio.US$!
ReDgUaRd008
New Member
Re: China J-XX official graph
Well MiG is part of the J-10 project. The 1.42/1.44/Twin engine J-10 is going to the PLAN for their aircraft carrier AKA J-10C. J-XX is being worked on by the company that makes the J-11. So its two different projects. J-10C for Navy and J-XX for 5th Gen Fighter
Well MiG is part of the J-10 project. The 1.42/1.44/Twin engine J-10 is going to the PLAN for their aircraft carrier AKA J-10C. J-XX is being worked on by the company that makes the J-11. So its two different projects. J-10C for Navy and J-XX for 5th Gen Fighter
Right two different projects by two different companies
The project J-10C, possibly a twin engine version of the J-10 for the PLAN to become China's first indigeniously built carrier jet is under development or even construction by Chengdu. It is still unclear whether it will have vector thrust nozzles like the Su-37 Terminator or not. The J-10C would become a direct counterpart to the current F/A-18E Super Hornet.
The project J-XX by Shenyang, either designated as J-12, J-13 or even J-14?, will become China's first 5th gen fighter for its PLAAF. It might be more a air superiority fighter while the F/A-22 Raptor is more of an allrounder although it was meant to be an air superiority fighter when it was still the YF-22. But things might also change for China's J-XX since nowadays fighter jets usually are designed to have both good air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities. But jets like the French Rafale or the JSF are like 60% A2G and 40% A2G. If China really intends to obtain and get the license to assemble the Su-33 Carrier Flanker (in the case they want to field an aircraft carrier within the next 10 years), those Su-33 might be designated as J-12 while the J-XX more likely to be designated J-14 if they get the license for the Su-35 Super Flanker or even the Su-37 Terminator as J-13.
But this is just my personal theory of future designation of PLAAF jets. So please don't blame me:gun if the PLAAF and PLAN has other plans
The project J-10C, possibly a twin engine version of the J-10 for the PLAN to become China's first indigeniously built carrier jet is under development or even construction by Chengdu. It is still unclear whether it will have vector thrust nozzles like the Su-37 Terminator or not. The J-10C would become a direct counterpart to the current F/A-18E Super Hornet.
The project J-XX by Shenyang, either designated as J-12, J-13 or even J-14?, will become China's first 5th gen fighter for its PLAAF. It might be more a air superiority fighter while the F/A-22 Raptor is more of an allrounder although it was meant to be an air superiority fighter when it was still the YF-22. But things might also change for China's J-XX since nowadays fighter jets usually are designed to have both good air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities. But jets like the French Rafale or the JSF are like 60% A2G and 40% A2G. If China really intends to obtain and get the license to assemble the Su-33 Carrier Flanker (in the case they want to field an aircraft carrier within the next 10 years), those Su-33 might be designated as J-12 while the J-XX more likely to be designated J-14 if they get the license for the Su-35 Super Flanker or even the Su-37 Terminator as J-13.
But this is just my personal theory of future designation of PLAAF jets. So please don't blame me:gun if the PLAAF and PLAN has other plans
YasirKarim
New Member
Re: China J-XX official graph
J-XX STEALTHY FIGHTER AIRCRAFT
According to the reports of the Jane's Defence Weekly, China has already launched its next generation stealthy fighter aircraft programme, and Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) has been selected to head research and development of a new fighter for the PLA Air Force (PLAAF).
PROGRAMME
According to the report from Jane's, development of the subsystems including the engine and weapon suite for the next generation fighter, which was codenamed by the Western intelligence as J-XX, has been underway for some time. Images of the concepts show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin's stealthy F/A-22 "Raptor" multirole fighter such as the internal carriage of its weapons.
Not too much public information about the programme is available at the moment. The aircraft, which could be designated as J-13 or J-14, is still going through initial concept work, the same stage as the USAF Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) programme in the early 1980s, which later led to the F/A-22 Raptor. Sources within China's confirmed that the SAC is looking at a twin-engine, single-seat, single vertical tale fin design, but other design proposals has yet been ruled out.
As China has developed close ties with Russia's aerospace industry and has license produced many planes of formal Soviet designs, it can be predicted that the J-XX would include some, if not many Russian technologies and designs. China has been offered a 'joint development and production' of a new fifth-generation fighter by Russia -LFI. Russia has been trying to sell this concept both to China and India for some time, but neither of them has committed fully yet. According to Russian resources, the LFI will be able to counter U.S. second fifth-generation Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).
Stealth and thrust vectoring are two must-have features in all aircraft being designed in the 21st century. If is not clear that how much progress Chinese designers have made in these areas, and Chinese aircraft industry may have to take Western/Israeli/Russian helps to make the J-XX truly fouth-generation (or fifth-generation using the Russian standards). Once introduced, the J-12's immediate rival will be U.S. F/A-22, JSF and India's MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft).
From:http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx.asp
Thanks & Regards
Yasir Karim
J-XX STEALTHY FIGHTER AIRCRAFT
According to the reports of the Jane's Defence Weekly, China has already launched its next generation stealthy fighter aircraft programme, and Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) has been selected to head research and development of a new fighter for the PLA Air Force (PLAAF).
PROGRAMME
According to the report from Jane's, development of the subsystems including the engine and weapon suite for the next generation fighter, which was codenamed by the Western intelligence as J-XX, has been underway for some time. Images of the concepts show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin's stealthy F/A-22 "Raptor" multirole fighter such as the internal carriage of its weapons.
Not too much public information about the programme is available at the moment. The aircraft, which could be designated as J-13 or J-14, is still going through initial concept work, the same stage as the USAF Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) programme in the early 1980s, which later led to the F/A-22 Raptor. Sources within China's confirmed that the SAC is looking at a twin-engine, single-seat, single vertical tale fin design, but other design proposals has yet been ruled out.
As China has developed close ties with Russia's aerospace industry and has license produced many planes of formal Soviet designs, it can be predicted that the J-XX would include some, if not many Russian technologies and designs. China has been offered a 'joint development and production' of a new fifth-generation fighter by Russia -LFI. Russia has been trying to sell this concept both to China and India for some time, but neither of them has committed fully yet. According to Russian resources, the LFI will be able to counter U.S. second fifth-generation Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).
Stealth and thrust vectoring are two must-have features in all aircraft being designed in the 21st century. If is not clear that how much progress Chinese designers have made in these areas, and Chinese aircraft industry may have to take Western/Israeli/Russian helps to make the J-XX truly fouth-generation (or fifth-generation using the Russian standards). Once introduced, the J-12's immediate rival will be U.S. F/A-22, JSF and India's MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft).
From:http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx.asp
Thanks & Regards
Yasir Karim
YasirKarim
New Member
Re: China J-XX official graph
A possible design proposal for China’s next generation stealthy fighter aircraft. The design resembles certain design features of the U.S. F/A-22. The real design may differ significantly.
from:http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx_gallery1.asp
Thanks & Regards
Yasir Karim
A possible design proposal for China’s next generation stealthy fighter aircraft. The design resembles certain design features of the U.S. F/A-22. The real design may differ significantly.
from:http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx_gallery1.asp
Thanks & Regards
Yasir Karim