iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Thank you for trying
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
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iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
I saw two Chinnoks dancing around each other at an early Avalon Airshow if my old brain serves me correctly.Best ship in the fleet
I have two equipment claims to fame: over 10 years in Aviation and ME deployments - have never seen a CH-47 in the flesh. And I have spent more time on HMAS Brisbane (II) than any other RAN vessel - including LPD, LPA and LHD!
It would be a brave deployment of such ships, given their age across a large ocean. They aren't really kitted for modern mine hunting either. Its all 90s and early vintage stuff. Arafura with drones would be a much better platform.. But its not really protected enough to work alone in that enviroment.
Also, I got a nice shot of the Anzacs while a storm hit the fleet on the review... on the manly ferry.. I was late for a cruise, so ferry it was with shopping bag of booze.
Haze grey..
The mogami looked nice..
The mogami.. looked very nice. Can't wait until one is in the RAN.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
And ours will be the Evolved version with 32 Mk41 VLS and a higher bridge. There's also a redesign of the bow. Nice looking ship with room to grow. The TKMS design was too crowded.
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iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
As they say "Steel is cheap"!
I think I've seen Chinooks belonging to a few countries. RAF ones quite often, sometimes over my house.
Its an impressive ship. Further refined. I imagine the Japanese will try to make the ones we get basically perfect. Because I am absolutely sure that there is a lot of interest globally on looking around those specific ships and talking to a non-Japanese crew operating them.
Its basically coming from a completely different tech tree, and these are the absolute show piece of Japanese naval engineering.
I think people get caught up on the weapon systems a bit much, as they are the least interesting thing, and most conventional thing on the ship. The tech integration is next level, RF signature management and networking. The wrist based sailor trackers. The ergonomics on things like the 127mm padeye and lift for rearming. The ship handling. How they have tried to make improvements in ship design, while keeping it small and efficient. As big as the ships are they are actually very space efficient. Well designed, throughout and engineered efficiency is a theme throughout the entire design. Every thing has been re-considered, to material choice like the rubber coms mast, paint, windows, electrical layout, mechanical.. Its not high risk redesign, but like a strong refinement of existing ideas and concepts. The Japanese certainly have their own particular brand of engineering, traditional blends with modern.
The second batch has apparently *ALOT* of small refinements for quality of life, serviceability, seakeeping etc. The Japanese seem also somewhat excited about Australia operating them, there is interest in Australian feedback and to see how Australia finds them. The big ships are based around US concepts, so smaller ships and middle power navies are kind of a new thing for them as a market. So we will have to see how that works.
I imagine the first time we pull up at RIMPAC everyone will want to crawl over it. As such I think we should take a few steps to personalise it. Not different weapons.. Clearly. But by far the most important part of a ship is the crews well being. Maybe they are too Japanese inside for aussie crews.
But lamb wool seat covers, Australian timbers/kangaroo leather used where possible, such is life window sticker, the chairs and table from the officer mess on the Canberra classes, the steering wheel from Mad max fury road. Bundaberg ginger beer/cascade mini can vending machine (everything from blood orange to pink grapefruit), sausage roll/pie oven but also a Roll'd/Sushi Hub fridge. A giant scenic picture of Fyshwick. Giggle and hoot bed sheets. This is where the money normally wasted on projects, can be spent.
I'm kind of surprised we ended up choosing them, given our generally risk adverse, which translates into modern adverse selection systems. But the Japanese are absolutely wedded to making them work and keeping them modern and functional, with a sizable fleet.
It looks very clean, in the flesh..
I know. @StingrayOZ , that you were in a humerous vein; but one of the big issues in any foreign design we buy, be it US, Spanish, German or (almost certainly) Japanese is adapting the food service arrangements to the needs of Australian crews. Brat pans replace paella pans, rearrange the bakery from the European concepts to ours for baked goods, provide sufficient grilling areas and combitherms, provide storage for plates and bowls rather than metal trays, that sort of thing. And, we do have to change out the soft drink vending machines; most of the rest of the world use 330ml cans whereas we use 375 (ASC probably still has a few 330s lying around somewhere). Individually they might not seem like big issues, but they are in fact vital for maintaining morale and ensuring the efficient and effective operation of the platform.
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Ironically the skimmers refer to subs as targets too.
Everyone forgets about human factors and just assumes the squishy meat sacks will adapt and tolerate whatever is there. I have seen it done very well, I have also seen it done very badly.
One of the big issues is too many people tend to treat it as "the documentation says its good so it is good". Then an experienced operator walks through the finished product and says "what the hell is that".
Im a great believer in models, digital and physical, and mock ups. Get the design right before you cut steel.
Taylor Brothers have been good for accomodation, very professional operators.
I’d be very confident that Japan will give a 100 percent to make this program work.
No doubt a good choice of ship
They will build the first three on time and they will serve us well.
The challenge will be the next eight built locally.
Suggest some build flexibility there.
Local and overseas.
Also looking at you NZ
Cheers S
I’m not confident we can build them from 2029 onwards as Austal lays out. No yard, extensive consolidation and upgrades required, limited workforce and without the experience. That’s on top of ECape, LCM and LCH builds…
So, I hope they push for a fourth to be built in Japan.
Construction begins>Delivery>Commissioning
MHI
1-2026>2029>2030
2-2028>2031>2032
3-2030>2033>2034
MHI(Japan)
4-2032>2035>2036
Or
AMC(Australia)
4-2029?>2035?>2036?
So, I hope they push for a fourth to be built in Japan.
Construction begins>Delivery>Commissioning
MHI
1-2026>2029>2030
2-2028>2031>2032
3-2030>2033>2034
MHI(Japan)
4-2032>2035>2036
Or
AMC(Australia)
4-2029?>2035?>2036?
2034 is an interesting year
Three Hobarts
Three Mogamis
Most likely two Hunters
If we get 28 years out of each ANZAC, then HMAS Perth should retire in 2034.
The RAN will have very capable ships but the low numbers are a concern pending a growth in overall numbers later in the decade.
Mogami 4 or even 5 may well be an overseas build.
Hopefully that’s at least an option.
Cheers S
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Even if 4 or 5 are built overseas I would like the government of the day to make a sensible decision to still build at least 8, if not more locally with upgraded versions as the Japanese do. We need continuous shipbuilding, not set numbers like now. Extend or amend the contract. Even the Americans do it with upgraded versions of the Arleigh Burke.
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Yes, Taylor Brothers impressed me, too.