Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[iambuzzard]

....and the days before and those to come.

Too true, John.

 

[Bob53]

I would suggest there is equal chance of the class being more than 11. The late run hulls are always the cheapest, and at a crew of 90 they are akin to two Arafuras.

For instance:

• The world situation deteriorates. Build more tier 2 ships.
• If the LOCSV proves to be problematic. Build more tier 2 ships.
• If the Hunter is delayed. Build more tier 2 ships.
• Want to increase defence expenditure towards 3%. Build more tier 2 ships.
• Need to prop up the WA economy after the iron ore industry tanks. Build more tier 2 ships.
• Need to replace the first hulls early because they have faults or are obsolete. Build more tier 2 ships.

It could end up a class of 15 or 18.

Replace the first 3 ships that might not be exactly as Australia wants after the first 8 AU builds are completed So we have a fleet with commonality. If there is then a surplus of tier 2 and the climate is right Sell or gift the first 3 to NZ.

 

[Bob53]

Currently the west has a complete shortage of AEW/AWACS capability that is suitable for peer conflicts. Australia is deploying E7 capability to Poland (not germany, not at a US base as before). Australia has 6 aircraft, so we are the largest operator outside of the US of a modern powerful AEW platform in the western world.
Australia did a billion dollar deal with Germany on land vehicles.
Australia has provided more tanks to Ukraine than the US.
There is plenty more munitions and vehicles, ships, etc in play. Many tens of billions.
The trade deal is possibly even more important than the ships. Again, potentially quite significant for Australia.

I am not saying that Japan doesn't have anything to offer, but Europe is also, now, offering more than just ships. However, the ships and wider defence deal are more separate than with the Japanese. Europe is now, in a similar situation as Japan is. In that they too feel very exposed, and now, very motivated. Australia has a lot to offer to Europe today, and in the future.

Ultimately Australia will likely strike deals with both, but where on the spectrum of the relationship will depend on things like the frigate deal.

Why not just get the frigate that suits us best …please?

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Why not just get the frigate that suits us best …please?

Bob, I quite agree. I think that the New-FFM (Mogami) is the best choice. It's a modern design from the ground up, has a lower crew requirement, is well armed and is being built right now.

The objections to it either no longer hold water (Germany is now proposing a theoretical design, so it isn't proven or low-risk), or are nonsensical (they've never exported so can't do it - which means that no one else can ever enter the export market).

On the last point, I didn't see anyone suggest it was risky for countries to order the Type 26 or Type 31 frigates. The fact the UK used to be a huge exporter of naval shipping was completely irrelevant because in the 20 years prior to that all we'd exported were some corvettes, and we certainly hadn't helped set up foreign construction lines for anything as big as what's happening now. If we can make it work, I'm sure the Japanese can.