ADF General discussion thread

[Stampede]

Australia eyes local production of the French Mistral air defense missile in Sydney.

One can only assume ADF has expressed interest in addressing it’s V-SHORAD capability gap, otherwise this is quite the ‘out there’ idea… More at the link…

Australia eyes local production of the French Mistral air defense missile in Sydney

NIOA and MBDA signed an MoU at Indo Pacific 2025 to explore Australian Mistral missile production, aligning with GWEO goals to boost sovereign air defense capac

www.armyrecognition.com

NIOA Group and MBDA signed a memorandum of understanding at Indo Pacific 2025 in Sydney on 5 November 2025 to examine assembly and potential warhead manufacture of the Mistral very short range air defense missile in Australia. The move fits Canberra’s push for sovereign weapons production under the GWEO enterprise and could make Australia the first producer of Mistral outside France if the government greenlights a ramp-up.

Have SHORAD been in demand in the current Russia / Ukraine conflict
What is the current SHORAD used in our Battalions

Cheers S

 

[Volkodav]

Australia eyes local production of the French Mistral air defense missile in Sydney.

One can only assume ADF has expressed interest in addressing it’s V-SHORAD capability gap, otherwise this is quite the ‘out there’ idea… More at the link…

Australia eyes local production of the French Mistral air defense missile in Sydney

NIOA and MBDA signed an MoU at Indo Pacific 2025 to explore Australian Mistral missile production, aligning with GWEO goals to boost sovereign air defense capac

www.armyrecognition.com

NIOA Group and MBDA signed a memorandum of understanding at Indo Pacific 2025 in Sydney on 5 November 2025 to examine assembly and potential warhead manufacture of the Mistral very short range air defense missile in Australia. The move fits Canberra’s push for sovereign weapons production under the GWEO enterprise and could make Australia the first producer of Mistral outside France if the government greenlights a ramp-up.

We live in strange times.

The government is being savaged for gaps in defence, with armchair experts screaming "we need this, we need that, we need the other", the opposition jumps up and down saying we should be spending more, the Murdoch media does what the Murdoch media does.

Out of the blue, a press release come from industry announcing an MOU for local manufacturing, or there's a US approval for export to Australia, then a few weeks later the government confirms, yes orders have been placed.

It's bloody obvious that discussions must have been underway for some time, but then, even though they are being criticised for doing nothing, there's not even a hint until it just happens.

 

[Stampede]

We live in strange times.

The government is being savaged for gaps in defence, with armchair experts screaming "we need this, we need that, we need the other", the opposition jumps up and down saying we should be spending more, the Murdoch media does what the Murdoch media does.

Out of the blue, a press release come from industry announcing an MOU for local manufacturing, or there's a US approval for export to Australia, then a few weeks later the government confirms, yes orders have been placed.

It's bloody obvious that discussions must have been underway for some time, but then, even though they are being criticised for doing nothing, there's not even a hint until it just happens.

Let’s see what evolves

I get the feeling a lot is happening behind the scenes.

Cheers S

 

[Aardvark144]

Well CAF announcing an across the board review into Flying Hours, sliding projects, reviewing sustainment and the Defence capping Reserve days is not helping sell the rhetoric that Government is expanding the ADF.

 

[Volkodav]

Well CAF announcing an across the board review into Flying Hours, sliding projects, reviewing sustainment and the Defence capping Reserve days is not helping sell the rhetoric that Government is expanding the ADF.

Defence has been over committed for years. Assumptions made on costs that have nothing to do with reality.

It is not comfortable at all but there does need to be reviews on expenses. We can't afford the new stuff we need, or to sustain the necessary stuff we already have, if we are spending money on less critic things, that while important, are not critical.

There is a project I'm on that was almost axed until we demonstrated its value for money, ironically by increasing scope. The cost benefit didn't stack up until we demonstrated what it would deliver to other projects once it was up and running.

Does it make sense acquiring a light MANPAD to replace the RBS70 roles NASAMs can't, probably not. Is it worth procuring a system that is more man portable than RBS70, can be vehicle mounted, and has been integrated in naval and air platforms?

Minimum viable capability is having some very interesting consequences.

One thing I have seen is while defence is shedding contractors, industry is bringing back quite a few grey beards, and the people bringing them in are the experienced technical managers who know they don't know it all, not the MBA wielding PMs who think they know it all.

 

[ADMk2]

Have SHORAD been in demand in the current Russia / Ukraine conflict
What is the current SHORAD used in our Battalions

Cheers S

SHORAD and every other type of air defence is in huge demand in Ukraine. Relentless attacks with not a jot of care for rules of engagement OR the laws of armed conflict tend to create such situations…

AD within our battalions? What? Local AD? What?

Australia will NEVER be subject to air attack so why would our battalions or any other unit besides 16 Regiment, have ANY AD capability besides all arms fire?

(Heavy does of sarcasm inserted…)

 

[Volkodav]

The other thing I've noticed with minimum viable capability, is the number of projects that didn't seem to be on the government's radar, that are bundled with local manufacture and export orders.

I wonder if the export order side is what is getting these projects across the line

An unaffordable "nice to have" becomes a capability to be procured when underpinned by sovereign industry and exports. A bespoke system, or something FMS may have been prefered by defence, or look better on paper, it may even have better performance, but local manufacture, subsidised by exports makes it affordable and perfectly good enough.

I wonder what else we can do this with?

 

[old faithful]

I have mentioned it before, that the reserves would be perfect for maintaining a manpads, fire and forget system, that requires little training.
Remember that the Taliban were taking out Russian Hinds in Afghanistan in the 80s with manpads.
Large numbers of reserve units could be activated and deployed to reg units in urgent times.

 

[Volkodav]

I have mentioned it before, that the reserves would be perfect for maintaining a manpads, fire and forget system, that requires little training.
Remember that the Taliban were taking out Russian Hinds in Afghanistan in the 80s with manpads.
Large numbers of reserve units could be activated and deployed to reg units in urgent times.

Missiles in general are a good option for reserves.

Most of the training is on simulators or can be conducted on a small number of training platforms with most in storage.

The issue will be the increased number if trade and technical soldiers needed to support the associated equipment. There will probably need to be a move to operator maintainer, i.e. upskill the gunners and grunts.

This can be sold to aid recruitment and retention.

Basically instead of minimum training and no recognised civilian qualification, expand the RAEME career path to soldiers operating the high tech stuff, including the reserves.

Have AQF equivalence for all technical promotion courses and specific operator/maintainer roles. Maybe even introduce technical streams separate to the command structure. i.e. so you could have a Gunner with all their technical certificates as an Artificer and paid accordingly. Currently Artificer is achieved after completing WO2 subject 4 (or maybe 2, I can't remember), separate this from rank. Say ten levels of tech and a soldier could be any rank while holding their tech delegation.

The longer you stay in, the more courses you do, the higher your civilian recognised qualification and the more you get paid. Not everyone wants, needs or is suitable to be the boss, that doesn't mean they can't contribute at higher levels, or that they don't deserve to be paid for their knowledge, experience and contribution.

Something gas to change to get smart people to join, stay and choose reserves after they separate.

 

[ADMk2]

I have mentioned it before, that the reserves would be perfect for maintaining a manpads, fire and forget system, that requires little training.
Remember that the Taliban were taking out Russian Hinds in Afghanistan in the 80s with manpads.
Large numbers of reserve units could be activated and deployed to reg units in urgent times.

Army is too busy patting itself on the back for re-raising DFSW and Mortar platoons in 2DIV (and ignoring they have had to strip the mortar capability from 2DIV artillery units to do so) infantry battalions, including (for the first time I understand) Javelin being allocated to some 2DIV units.

If so and one would presume that if Javelin can be successfully operated in 2DIV, then we aren’t talking about a huge leap to manage a relatively straight forward V-SHORAD system like Mistral…

Perhaps the reserve artillery units can be re-rolled into a “force protection” unit with ISR / EW, FO, Counter-UAS and V-SHORAD as their assigned roles, now that actual artillery capability is no longer on the agenda for the majority of our artillery units?