Fighter-jet engines stolen from Israeli base
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I severely doubt these engines will ever end up in an aeroplane again - reverse-engineering is the name of the game. Those engines will presumably be sold to the highest bidder, who will then have them dismantled and examined by engineers in an attempt to glean some of the various technical innovations these engines undoubtedly contain.
It is somewhat surprising that this happened in Israel though.
Organised crime I suspect, strip the engines for spare parts and sell them on the black market.
They could have been stolen to order though, who operates aircraft using the same engines and is currently under a trade embargo?
I was reading some blogger reporting that they actually where found in a scrapyard and only after they were found the Israelis started the investigation. In my opinion, if it's true, it's even worse than I thought, they didn't even now the engines were missing! Kind of hard to believe, massive failure or corruption. Or someone falsified some paperwork to ship them out as something else, I saw it happen in the US Army.
I know a lot of people are saying these engines are already in China, I don't know how much value they would have as these engines are for the oldest F15/F16s, it's not really new tech. It's not like they are getting a -220 or a F119/F135 from P&W.
Some are saying these engines will end up in Iran, not really sure how much good that would do to them, I seriously doubt Iran can install an F100 in place for TF30 like I saw some one allude too. Not only that, but these engines are more than likely life or part expired, it would be a bit risky for the pilot to fly with these bad boys in place. When it comes to reverse engineering them, Iran would probably love too but it will take them years, no blue prints, right machine tools, etc...it isn't that easy.
I know a lot of people are saying these engines are already in China, I don't know how much value they would have as these engines are for the oldest F15/F16s, it's not really new tech. It's not like they are getting a -220 or a F119/F135 from P&W.
Some are saying these engines will end up in Iran, not really sure how much good that would do to them, I seriously doubt Iran can install an F100 in place for TF30 like I saw some one allude too. Not only that, but these engines are more than likely life or part expired, it would be a bit risky for the pilot to fly with these bad boys in place. When it comes to reverse engineering them, Iran would probably love too but it will take them years, no blue prints, right machine tools, etc...it isn't that easy.
Things can end up a scrapyard real easy. The guy with a work order to haul away a load of scrap shows up and some bored clerk tells him it is the stuff next against the left wall of the hanger or warehouse. Except that the clerk means the left wall facing out of the hanger and the scrap hauler thinks he means the left wall facing into the hanger and loads the engines or whatever. Meanwhile there is a shift change and when the scrap hauler comes back to have the job completion notice signed it is a different clerk, who looks out, sees a clean spot where the scrap hauler is pointing and signs off. The scrap hauler then drives up to the gate and presents the guard with the signed paperwork and heads off to the scrapyard. Typically the loss of the items will go unnoticed, everyone thinks a different shift moved them elsewhere so they are out of the way, until someone needs them. :hitwall
Never witnessed it with jet engines, but I know a job that lost a couple of gamma sources for weld inspection that way. Thankfully they managed to track them down before someone tried to disassemble them and got radiation poisoning. :sick
Sold the Iranians F15's in the late 70's
We sold the Iranians these F15's back in 1974 and were delivered before the Sha was ousted by the Revolutionary Guard and the Clerics. We had a partial deliverery and it was figured that they lacked spare parts once they were banned for sale. Maybe they are hurt by the sanctions and are trying to refit these old jets.
We sold the Iranians these F15's back in 1974 and were delivered before the Sha was ousted by the Revolutionary Guard and the Clerics. We had a partial deliverery and it was figured that they lacked spare parts once they were banned for sale. Maybe they are hurt by the sanctions and are trying to refit these old jets.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Umm... No. Pre-revolution Iran (under the Shah) was sold a number of fighter aircraft, but they were NOT sold any F-15 or F-16 fighter aircraft. They were sold F-14A Tomcats, but they are completely different aircraft from those in Israeli service.
-Cheers
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Whatever the reasons for this theft, it's a really hard slap in the face of Israeli Defence Forces establishment. You can expect to someone else, but for Israel that 'pride' themselves on 24/7 readiness of their Armed Forces especially their Air Forces, it's really a humiliating circumstances.
Those engines perhaps from the early versions of F-15 and F-16 in the IAF inventory, but still belong to the 'active' inventory. Read sometime ago, on Jerusalem Posts on article that highlighted lower standard of 'involvement' on present generations of Israeli Recruits compared what the fanatism and resolveness of earlier Israeli generations.
Whether it's true or not, but perhaps this kind of situations should be a wake up called for IDF establishment to review their 'pride' standard. Nobody will say the IDF standard is decreasing, but if this's being let it happen, whille in the same time the sourounding neighbourhood being inflitrated by more fanatics and determined enemies, Israel should begin to search their 'citizen recruit' soldiers resolveness.
Those engines perhaps from the early versions of F-15 and F-16 in the IAF inventory, but still belong to the 'active' inventory. Read sometime ago, on Jerusalem Posts on article that highlighted lower standard of 'involvement' on present generations of Israeli Recruits compared what the fanatism and resolveness of earlier Israeli generations.
Whether it's true or not, but perhaps this kind of situations should be a wake up called for IDF establishment to review their 'pride' standard. Nobody will say the IDF standard is decreasing, but if this's being let it happen, whille in the same time the sourounding neighbourhood being inflitrated by more fanatics and determined enemies, Israel should begin to search their 'citizen recruit' soldiers resolveness.
A former employer of mine almost lost equipment the lack of which would have necessitated bringing forward spending of well over £100 million, unless we could buy it all back before anyone else snapped it up.
It had been sitting in storage for so long without any turnover that according to the stores management criteria the firm operated, it was written off. Put up for sale as electronic scrap, bids being considered . . . . then someone found out. It was a load of spares for out of production network equipment. We had a (sensible) policy of buying a sufficient stock of spares just before the end of production to keep kit running for what was considered its reasonable life, so we could keep the network (that is, the largest mobile phone network in the UK) going without having to rip out whole base stations, network controllers, etc. every time a minor component failed.
It got notices slapped all over it saying "Do not dispose of without referring to X".
Happens ALL the time. Most people and companies are just to embarrassed to admit when it happens. :lol3
And they do the same thing (covering it up) when their computers get hacked. :unknown
Yes, they were F14As. Iran never got the F15, they had if I recall an order for F16s, I think the first one they were supposed to get was never delivered because the revolution happened. Funny thing is that order for F16s for Iran helped Israel get that order instead super fast.
Maybe somebody could explain to you why Iran ordered the F14 better than me, as far as I know, Iran felt it was the only fighter that could shoot down MIG 25s doing recons over Iran at the time. Also I can't prove it but I think somebody in Iran got a little something-something under the table to help Grumman and buy the F14 which was going to be canceled as the price was exploding,IMO. It helped Grumman and US Navy a lot.:xmas
It would be really hard for Iran to use F100s on F14s. I guess they could try to reverse engineer them but it would be tough. As far as we know, those engines are still in Israel anyways.
As far as Israelis go, it could just as Swerve or My2cents have explained, nothing more than a clerical error or negligence, someone not being in the loop. Or it could have been a more criminal endeavor.
Maybe somebody could explain to you why Iran ordered the F14 better than me, as far as I know, Iran felt it was the only fighter that could shoot down MIG 25s doing recons over Iran at the time. Also I can't prove it but I think somebody in Iran got a little something-something under the table to help Grumman and buy the F14 which was going to be canceled as the price was exploding,IMO. It helped Grumman and US Navy a lot.:xmas
It would be really hard for Iran to use F100s on F14s. I guess they could try to reverse engineer them but it would be tough. As far as we know, those engines are still in Israel anyways.
As far as Israelis go, it could just as Swerve or My2cents have explained, nothing more than a clerical error or negligence, someone not being in the loop. Or it could have been a more criminal endeavor.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
The story I heard regarding the Iranian purchase of the F-14 was that the Shah was a bit of an aircraft/fighter buff, who therefore knew more about the published aircraft specs than some of the senior US officials who would visit Iran to keep him 'happy' Iran at the time was part of a 'two-pillar' strategy that the US had in the Mideast, with strong allies in Israel and Iran, and between them able to influence/threaten neighbouring Mideast countries. Therefore the US officials would tend to approve requests from the Shah without necessarily understanding how advanced some of what he was asking for/getting was.
Also during the mid-1970's, the F-14 Tomcat would have really been the only advanced US fighter aircraft that would have been available. The F-14 Tomcat entered USN service in 1974. The F-15 did not enter USAF service until 1976, with the F-16 entering US service in ~1978. The Iranian Revolution (depending on whose timeline...) stated in ~1977, intensified in 1978, and the Shah went into exile in the beginning of 1979.
-Cheers
Also, the AWG-9/AIM-54 Phoenix combination was very attractive to the Iranians. The Soviets had begun overflights of Iran with the MiG-25 and the Phoenix was the one missile at the time which could guarantee an intercept.
That said ... The F-14 was designed around the TF30 but later variants did use the F110 engine which IIRC is physically bigger than the F100. The F110 was also designed to be easily interchangable with the F100. Changing an F-16 using the F100 to a F110 can be carried out by the mechs on base and the only major new part required is a new intake (the F110 requires a larger inlet).
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That is about right. But there is an additional good to know information to it as well. The F-14s were purchased as the air-superiority fighters. Iran still needed advance multirole aircraft to counter then quickly modernizing Soviet airpower. So Shah of Iran invested in the project that would become "F-16." So in a way F-16 was U.S-Iran joint venture - although U.S was the only one working on it and Iran was just pouring in money.
About the Israeli engines going to Iran. Well it is one possibility. Iran has an active aircraft development program. They want an advance replacement of F-4 and F-5. Logically that would be something similar to F-15 and F-16 but what they have developed is their own advance versions of F-4 and F-5. So the engines may very well suit them.
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Neither do I. But since this can of worms was open so I gave the logical but distant possibility. On the other hand Israel has done secret business with the Iran after the revolution on few occasions.
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I remember very well, a photo that appeared in Newsweek or Time in the 1980's, showing Iranian veterans on wheelchairs, who were chanting anti-USA and Zionist slogans during a rally, clutching Uzis
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