China buying 38 Su-35MKKs ?

[macman]

Came across this at a pretty good blog by Prasun K. Sengupta, a pretty sharp Indian military blogger who is at the Chinese Air Show:

"Present plans of the PLA Air Force call for the acquisition of 38 Su-35MKKs whose primary armaments package will include Novator’s KS-172 long-range air combat missile as well as the Yakhont multi-role supersonic cruise missile from NPO Mashinostroineyie. Interestingly, the Yakhonts will be upgraded will an all-digital navigation-and-guidance system developed by Russia’s JSC Konstern Avionika."

More details at: _http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/

Sounds like the Chinese are still focusing on the Naval Interdiction route, & this will really add to their capabilities.

A heavy strike variant of the SU-35 which maintains it's powerful air-to-air role would be a formidable presence in the region..

 

[swerve]

Prasun Sengupta has a reputation for - shall we say - being rather over-confident about the veracity of what he hears. BTW, he's based in Malaysia, though I'm not sure of his citizenship.

 

[Feanor]

What the hell is an Su-35MKK? There are two Su-35 models in existence. Su-35 and Su-35BM. Is talking about the Su-35BM or did he mean the Su-30MKK?

 

[ReAl PrOeLiTeZ]

If the claims are true, its probably for the electronics and weapons for themselves to examine and incorporate into their own designs. Since purchasing just several units for Chinese engineers to examine is all that is needed, but Russia isn't willing to sell just several units to them. And 35 was the number that both sides agreed on.

It certainly cannot be the Su-30MKK. Why would they purchase these old designs? They've already got MKK and the superior MKK2 already in their inventory, and also rejected the MKK3 variant which Russia offered. And CCTV journalist say that their domesticated Flanker variant J-11B is already well sufficient. I dont see how the J-11B is not as capable as the MKK2/3 already in service or offer.

MKK is the term used for a export version for China previous Flankers, so if it is true this is the designation that they'll use for their export Su-35. With that said I dont see why China needs to pay +$60 million per unit for an airframe that has simular performance and specifications, yet still delivering same payload and simular range. Only thing would be the uprated TVC thrust turbofans. Other than this nothing else that could signifcantly boost the PLA power.

 

[funtz]

"Present plans of the PLA Air Force call for the acquisition of 38 Su-35MKKs whose primary armaments package will include Novator’s KS-172 long-range air combat missile as well as the Yakhont multi-role supersonic cruise missile from NPO Mashinostroineyie. Interestingly, the Yakhonts will be upgraded will an all-digital navigation-and-guidance system developed by Russia’s JSC Konstern Avionika."

I hope he publishes that in one of the news articles he writes. )

The chinese people would be the ones laughing the hardest.

 

[tphuang]

it amuses me that so many people are taking what he wrote seriously. There is no basis for this article and he has no credibility what so ever.

 

[Feanor]

No seriously. What the hell is an Su-35MKK?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

If this story has a valid base it is probably referring to the Su-30MKK or Su-30MK2 (or maybe even an Su-30MK3) but has been typoed into the non-exsistant "Su-35MKK". Especially since the Su-30MKK is meant to be so similar to the Su-35. So this would be a 3rd batch of Su-30MKK being ordered by PLAAF.

 

[Feanor]

Yeah. But then the blog also mentions Su-33MKK. Now we're getting into science fiction. China looked at buying Su-33's back in 2006 iirc and KnAAPO propsed a China variant of the plane. But nothing has come of that to date, and no new announcements have come to my knowledge. And iirc China has already turned down the Su-35BM. So the only possibility is the one you mentioned, more Su-30MKK. Doesn't seem likely though. At least not to me, not given recent trends within China to increase domestic production and development, and buy less abroad.

 

[nevidimka]

Its hard to believe that Russia would sell China their latest Flanker built with the latest technologies so that the Chinese could clone it from head to toe again. The J 11 is an unwanted example of it.

ANd on SU 35, I belive a Su 35 BM that is armed towards strike more than A2A. But considering how the SU35BM is multirole afterall, it wouldnt be much a problem to make it a pure A2G platform.

 

[Feanor]

Its hard to believe that Russia would sell China their latest Flanker built with the latest technologies so that the Chinese could clone it from head to toe again. The J 11 is an unwanted example of it.

What are you kidding me? They're willing to sell anything to anyone that pays for it. And the whole J-11 cloning problem was simply the fact that Russia accused China of preparing to re-export the plane. China denied the allegations. China doesn't want to buy it.

ANd on SU 35, I belive a Su 35 BM that is armed towards strike more than A2A. But considering how the SU35BM is multirole afterall, it wouldnt be much a problem to make it a pure A2G platform.

I doubt that the Su-35BM is a strike fighter. It doesn't make sense. The VVS has the Su-34 as a strike fighter, and it would make sense if the Su-35BM was an air superiority platform with some multi-role capabilities.

 

[ReAl PrOeLiTeZ]

Its hard to believe that Russia would sell China their latest Flanker built with the latest technologies so that the Chinese could clone it from head to toe again. The J 11 is an unwanted example of it.

ANd on SU 35, I belive a Su 35 BM that is armed towards strike more than A2A. But considering how the SU35BM is multirole afterall, it wouldnt be much a problem to make it a pure A2G platform.

Wrong. J-11 is a licensed production of the Su-27, J-11B cloned head to toe?? Is that fact or just your thinking? J-11B as far as leaks from interviews and videos only uses the airframe of the Su-27, though with domestic avionics, engines, weapons, and even the airframe is changed to extend service length and reduce weight. China only used the airframe under license NOT copy. And China has no talks with other nations of exporting the J-11, that was someones thinking that escallated. If its the same as Su-30MKK3 then its just waste of time and money for China, to acquire a platform that can only deliver Russian munitions.

 

[macman]

The 35MKK moniker I just took for signifying a chinese export version, re. same as most of the other flankers sold to them.

Had come across mentions on a couple of other places that they were interested in SU-35's, but don't have links at the moment.

From the info (guesses?) so far, would say radar/pods/armament is more optomisted to naval strike role.

Reason for buy ?
SU-35 is said to carry a lot of new arms - Yakhont & Novator would be very interesting to the Chinese. Get in on the SU-35, then gradually upgrade the rest of the older flankers to use most of new stuff on the SU-35.


I suppose if the deal is for real, we'll be seeing more info on it soon.

 

[Feanor]

It's not. The source is more then sketchy, and variants of planes mentioned don't exist.

 

[ReAl PrOeLiTeZ]

The 35MKK moniker I just took for signifying a chinese export version, re. same as most of the other flankers sold to them.

Had come across mentions on a couple of other places that they were interested in SU-35's, but don't have links at the moment.

From the info (guesses?) so far, would say radar/pods/armament is more optomisted to naval strike role.

Reason for buy ?
SU-35 is said to carry a lot of new arms - Yakhont & Novator would be very interesting to the Chinese. Get in on the SU-35, then gradually upgrade the rest of the older flankers to use most of new stuff on the SU-35.


I suppose if the deal is for real, we'll be seeing more info on it soon.

why would china purchase the whole fighter just for the munitions? its a waste of money, the airframe it basically simular to the ones they got, if they just want the weapons then they should just holds talks about weapons deals.

 

[Firehorse]

What do you all think about this animation?
Su-33 or its derivative against F-18E/F!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmm8iQzlIRQ&feature=related"]YouTube - Chinese aircraft carrier combat[/ame]

I wonder how Su-35 will differ from Chinese Su-33 follow on, besides folding wings and landing gear?

 

[F-15 Eagle]

No seriously. What the hell is an Su-35MKK?

Probably a highly advanced alien spaceship with lazor beams.nfloorl:

 

[Abraham Gubler]

What do you all think about this animation?
Su-33 or its derivative against F-18E/F!

Tactically its complete crap. I do like the Chinese ability to make an AAM stand still in mid air... that would be cool.

 

[crobato]

That looks so LOMAC.

Basically you set the game with two automated combatants, and the entire thing is run unscripted by AI. The user uses the external viewpoint commands to switch views from carrier to aircraft to inside the aircraft (Su-33 only) and even at the missile itself. There is another program running as resident capturing the entire scene as a video.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Basically you set the game with two automated combatants, and the entire thing is run unscripted by AI. The user uses the external viewpoint commands to switch views from carrier to aircraft to inside the aircraft (Su-33 only) and even at the missile itself. There is another program running as resident capturing the entire scene as a video.

If so the combatants are operating in a ridiculous manner. The US CVBG has no AEW airborne and the AEGIS ships are extremely close to the carrier. So the FLANKERs can sneak up on the carrier and then miraculous manage to evade SM-2 hits by using flares? Nothing is going to save them from AEGIS at this range. Even the Mk 99 illuminators will make the aircraft U/S. The less said about the ATA combat the better. This video looks cool but is total fantasy in terms of combat replication.